Author Topic: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay  (Read 400 times)

Offline RB

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187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« on: July 24, 2017, 03:23:59 PM »
Can anyone identify this relay?...other than the number...
like, what part of a cord circuit is it used in?

Alex G. Bell

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 04:53:27 AM »
The most direct way would be to start by identifying the model # of the PBX where you found it.  A 5-digit J-number would identify the model # if you don't find any direct indication of the model #.  Otherwise post photos of the front and back (open). 

From the model # the SD # can be determined and from that the function and specifications of the relay. 

Usually there is a wiring "T" diagram pasted onto the back panel of a switchboard.  The SD number would normally have the same base 5-digit number as the SD.

Offline RB

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 09:47:54 AM »
Oh, if it were only so... :-\
All I have is :
Western Electric used 187AF relay for your old switchboard cord ckt.....I think this is older than your 550 switchboard....wire seems to be from the 30s ...has 2 make and 2 break contacts...
Thats all...plus, one pic of a silver cylinder, with a thumb screw on top, I guess to remove the cover?

Victor Laszlo

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 12:04:40 PM »
I suspect that you are not telling us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We are trying to help, but pulling teeth is not part of the job description.

Did you buy this on Ebay or someplace similar?  Did you forget to place quotation marks around the text as follows:

"Western Electric used 187AF relay for your old switchboard cord ckt.....I think this is older than your 550 switchboard....wire seems to be from the 30s ...has 2 make and 2 break contacts..."

to indicate that the text was used in a description by the seller?  It has that tajacobs ("Jake's phone parts") Ebay-speak tone to it.  Is it from Ebay auction #260155221830?

Can you tell us if "Oh, if it were only so..."  means that you do not have the rest of the switchboard that it comes from, and that you bought this thinking that it might be of some utility in one of your home-brew projects?

Generally, one designs a circuit (or copies one already proven to work) and then acquires the necessary parts to create the project.  You seem to have a history of doing it the other way round. Buy the parts, then try to create something that might use the parts.  In the past, a few of us here have tried to gently admonish you about this predilection of reverse engineering and construction. I am not the only one to recognize this somewhat flawed flow chart in your plans.  As you can probably figure out, that method is frustrating to you and to those of us who try to figure out what your goals are.

There are decades of telephone experience here, from engineers to field technicians, and notwithstanding the criticism that a few recently-arrived members have made, we DO know what we're talking about, and we stand ready to assist you enthusiastically.   

« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 12:15:45 PM by Victor Laszlo »

Alex G. Bell

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 01:03:31 PM »
Oh, if it were only so... :-\
All I have is :
Western Electric used 187AF relay for your old switchboard cord ckt.....I think this is older than your 550 switchboard....wire seems to be from the 30s ...has 2 make and 2 break contacts...
Thats all...plus, one pic of a silver cylinder, with a thumb screw on top, I guess to remove the cover?
Maybe you have the code wrong.  Searching for related basic spec. documents for 187-type relays I find 180-series relays listed but no 187s. 

Even if we found a spec. one covering the 187 type and 187AF specifically, at best this doc. would only give the characteristics of the relay itself, not its specific application in a cord circuit, as you asked.  That information would be left to the judgement of someone experienced with cord circuits to guess. 

If specs were available we might find that it's a special function relay with very specific characteristics, hence its function in any circuit could be guessed with good certainty, or it could be a general purpose relay usable for a wide range of purposes.

That's why to get the answer to the question you asked: its function in the circuit, you generally need to know some example of a switchboard it was used in.  Otherwise the question you're asking is equivalent to "What was a bolt of unspecified characteristics used for in automobiles?", a question for which there is no specific answer.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 01:07:10 PM by Alex G. Bell »

Offline RB

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 01:48:23 PM »
OK, Victor...Turn the knife, and get the blood flowing! That was a good heart stab... :(
Never the less. YOU, Sir, are absofreakinlootly correct in everything you accused me of.
I did indeed see this on ebay. And the description WAS as unquoted, my bad.
I looked to see if the seller provided any additional info, they did not.
So, I figured, one...or all of you... would prob be able to tell by the number provided, what this thing was used for.
That's why the post was placed.
I do agree, that my methods are maybe a little backwards from the manner in which you all learned this stuff.
And, as I seldom have the privlige of being able to start from the beginning, I have to do things in reverse a lot.
This has and prob will continue to be the way things work for me. It Does work. albeit, in some seemingly different language.
So, I will not apologize for my methods. I will, however, try to format future questions in a manner in which is satisfactory with the norm on this sight.
There is no disrespect aimed at anyone.
Alex, Thank you for the info concerning relays. I had no idea "and little info" on this stuff, that's why I ask questions.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2017, 02:00:23 PM »
Alex, Thank you for the info concerning relays. I had no idea "and little info" on this stuff, that's why I ask questions.
You're welcome.  Now you know the limits on what information is available and how it can be found without resorting to a time consuming research project.

But I'm still curious to know the source of the code "187AF".  Did you actually see this marked on the item or in a photo of it or was it text you found on a web page, subject to someone's typographical error? 

There is little or no possibility that the maintenance docs. I referred to would have deleted information specifically on 187-types while retaining information on the other 180-types.  It seems to be an invalid code.

Offline RB

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 04:07:39 PM »
Alex. The number "187AF", was what the seller called it. It popped up when I searched for switchboard keys. so, I clicked on it to see what it was.
I thot it may be one of those double wound relays used in the supervisor lites circuit on a CB switchboard. Is that the correct term? I cannot build one, so I guess I was hoping it may be one of that type. Would have been fun checkin it out, anyway. I looked online for info, and came up with nada.
Thanks again for your patience with a newbe!

Alex G. Bell

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 04:49:29 PM »
Alex. The number "187AF", was what the seller called it. It popped up when I searched for switchboard keys. so, I clicked on it to see what it was.
I thot it may be one of those double wound relays used in the supervisor lites circuit on a CB switchboard. Is that the correct term? I cannot build one, so I guess I was hoping it may be one of that type. Would have been fun checkin it out, anyway. I looked online for info, and came up with nada.
Thanks again for your patience with a newbe!
Most likely the number is wrong.  Ask the seller for a photo showing the #.

Supervisory relays in cord circuits are usually low resistance (2x10 ohms IIRC) non-inductively wound sensitive "B" type relays with screwdriver adjustment of armature restoring spring force and contact spacings, and with light contact loads: 1 transfer or separate make and break contacts. 

It's possible to manufacture relays with similar functional characteristics using other types of construction, however based on the appearance and what I know about other 180-type relays I doubt this is one.  The seller should be able to measure the winding resistances and report whether it has a single or dual windings and the resistance(s) and contact configuration.

If you provided more details about what you are trying to accomplish instead of asking questions in a vacuum, providing almost no context, it might be possible for people to give more useful suggestions.  Based on what you've told us so far further suggestions would require time wasting speculation about what you might be trying to do.

Offline RB

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 05:16:43 PM »
Understood. Thank you :)

Alex G. Bell

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Re: 187AF switchboard cord ckt relay
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 05:24:13 PM »
Understood. Thank you :)
You're welcome.