Author Topic: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion  (Read 298 times)

Offline Duffy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1145
Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« on: August 07, 2017, 08:28:20 PM »
Nice job on the card Doug !

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

Now if I could only get it to print the right size.  >:(
CDN Doug

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 08:31:28 PM »
Thanks Jeff,

Now if I could only get it to print the right size.  >:(
What format is the file in? 

What application are you using to print?

Offline Duffy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 08:39:36 PM »
What format is the file in? 

What application are you using to print?

JPG and Paint.
CDN Doug

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 08:55:47 PM »
JPG and Paint.
I never use Paint but in that case, what version of Windows?  I'll look at it if I have a machine running the same version.

Some programs have an option to scale a sheet to fit the stated paper size.  If you declare the page to be letter size, since most printers cannot print to the very edge, some programs will scale the declared paper size to fit the printable area, losing perhaps 1/4" all around and slightly reducing the printed image size.

One other issue I've seen with images on that site is that the embedded file header DPI parameter in some is wrong by 50%.  I forget whether they were double size or half size but I've found many of them to be wrong.

Some programs will use the DPI value to attempt to print the actual size based on this DPI and from these wrong files you will have half or double size copies.

What size is it actually printing?  What size is it supposed to be?

Upload the JPG to this topic or tell us both the HxV pixel count and stated DPI if you know how to inspect them.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 09:01:46 PM by Alex G. Bell »

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 11:35:26 PM »
Oh!  I forgot you already had uploaded the # card.  Apparently the DPI info is blank and Irfanview (and probably other things) assumes it's at the default 72dpi screen resolution, which makes it about 7" in diameter.

I set it to 300dpi, which makes it 1-5/8" diameter, what the # card on my S-C 1248 measures.  See whether this prints better.

Offline Duffy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1145
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 04:55:14 AM »
Oh!  I forgot you already had uploaded the # card.  Apparently the DPI info is blank and Irfanview (and probably other things) assumes it's at the default 72dpi screen resolution, which makes it about 7" in diameter.

I set it to 300dpi, which makes it 1-5/8" diameter, what the # card on my S-C 1248 measures.  See whether this prints better.

Great thanks, I'll give that a try later on today.
CDN Doug

Offline unbeldi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5584
  • opus in senio
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 07:36:27 AM »
I am afraid that setting the DPI parameter on images is not preserved anymore, one can no longer size images properly, because the Forum is now (sadly) set to strip EXIF data from images, IIRC.  JPEG images also are reduced in quality with a higher compression ratio.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 08:38:25 AM by unbeldi »

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 09:13:56 AM »
I am afraid that setting the DPI parameter on images is not preserved anymore, one can no longer size images properly, because the Forum is now (sadly) set to strip EXIF data from images, IIRC.  JPEG images also are reduced in quality with a higher compression ratio.
That explains why the DPI param. is blank but in that case we don't know that the version of the file he attempted to print from was also blank, hence why his original attempt did not produce a copy of the correct size.

Until we know what version of Win (& consequently of Paint) he used, we cannot assess whether it relies on the DPI value or not to determine physical size at print time nor whether he can correct it if it's wrong in the file anyway for some other reason.

I don't see anything in Win10 Home Paint which allows the DPI param to be viewed let alone set.

I've attached a PDF set so Acrobat thinks it's 1.63x1.63".  Maybe that will work.  Presumably the forum S/W cannot muck with the file header in a PDF.  Acrobat must be set to print with SHRINK and ENLARGE disabled.

I tried uploading the TIF and it was rejected.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:00:51 AM by Alex G. Bell »

Offline unbeldi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5584
  • opus in senio
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 09:45:26 AM »
Number cards are probably the only documents I printed in the most recent years, and when set to the proper physical dimensions by adjusting the DPI value, they print perfectly in the exact size as intended, when I had the correct printer software installed for the printer I was using.  The same applies to designation strips for 565 telsets, created by exact specification of cell dimensions in Excel or OpenOffice.  I can't imaging that any modern computer would not do that precisely.

HERE is a 7"x10" sheet of number cards, for example, which I created a few years ago. It has exact dimensions and should print automatically in the correct size if the printer settings are correct for 100% sizing.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 09:52:26 AM by unbeldi »

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 10:21:46 AM »
Number cards ... when set to the proper physical dimensions by adjusting the DPI value, ... print perfectly in the exact size as intended, when I had the correct printer software installed for the printer I was using.  The same applies to designation strips for 565 telsets, created by exact specification of cell dimensions in Excel or OpenOffice.  I can't imaging that any modern computer would not do that precisely.
I agree.  I have been doing this for decades going back to PC Paint Brush with PCX files with no problem and other software since but if someone only has PAINT they may be unable to print a generic image file.  That's where a properly set PDF may work better using the free Acrobat reader.

Online TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6504
  • A Ringy-Dingy Thingy
    • . . . been good so far
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 10:46:09 AM »
I am afraid that setting the DPI parameter on images is not preserved anymore, one can no longer size images properly, because the Forum is now (sadly) set to strip EXIF data from images, IIRC.  JPEG images also are reduced in quality with a higher compression ratio.

It's a choice, experience recoding and never get the "security error" screen OR save the EXIF by not recoding and let members deal passing "security error" message by removing EXIF data and/or resizing on their own image.

And then stop complaining forever and a day about "I CAN'T UPLOAD MY IMAGES BECAUSE I GET A "SECURITY ERROR" - WHY CAN'T SOMETHING BE DONE IN THE SOFTWARE TO AVOID THE "SECURITY ERROR"?

One way or the other, which is preferred? Do we need to do a poll? What do our regular members want, automatic recoding or security errors?

We finally fix one MAJOR uploading issue and end up getting slammed with another. This will be filed in the "can't win for trying" topic.
            John . . .

              

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 10:56:07 AM »
It's a choice, experience recoding and never get the "security error" screen OR save the EXIF by not recoding and let members deal passing "security error" message by removing EXIF data and/or resizing on their own image.

And then stop complaining forever and a day about "I CAN'T UPLOAD MY IMAGES BECAUSE I GET A "SECURITY ERROR" - WHY CAN'T SOMETHING BE DONE IN THE SOFTWARE TO AVOID THE "SECURITY ERROR"?

One way or the other, which is preferred? Do we need to do a poll? What do our regular members want, automatic recoding or security errors?

We finally fix one MAJOR uploading issue and end up getting slammed with another. This will be filed in the "can't win for trying" topic.
JPGs are not a particularly good choice for graphic images anyway.  JPG compression is best for continuous tone photos. 

What will the server do to a TIF file which has no EXIF data but stores both the pixel count and DPI value in the header?  The fact that TIFs are not displayed on the web page seems unimportant.  The JPG can be uploaded for viewing and the TIF for printing as an alternative to a PDF.  Either should work.

Offline unbeldi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5584
  • opus in senio
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 11:36:07 AM »
It's a choice, experience recoding and never get the "security error" screen OR save the EXIF by not recoding and let members deal passing "security error" message by removing EXIF data and/or resizing on their own image.

Security check errors still occur, and I have received them as late as today.  There is nothing short of fixing the problem of the poor algorithm in the software to stop them.  Just stripping EXIF or XMP data does not solve it alone.  The algorithm is still triggered by random bit-patterns that match the search strings.

Alex G. Bell

  • Guest
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 11:50:10 AM »
Security check errors still occur, and I have received them as late as today.  There is nothing short of fixing the problem of the poor algorithm in the software to stop them.  Just stripping EXIF or XMP data does not solve it alone.  The algorithm is still triggered by random bit-patterns that match the search strings.
I tried to upload a TIF version of the number card thinking it did not contain EXIF data, that the DPI value is embedded some other way.  It rejected both versions of the TIF file, which was 357KB @ 24bit color, 131KB @ 8 bit color, not especially large. 

What security threat can a TIF file possibly pose?  It's not executable.

Offline mentalstampede

  • no deposit, no return
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Re: Image Uploading Parameter Discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 12:00:22 PM »
If you use photo editing software such as Adobe Photoshop or GIMP you can specify any size you like in the print dialogue. GIMP is free, and it's what I have been using to print number cards and payphone instruction cards with good results. In addition, it is a full-featured editing suite.

GIMP can be downloaded here: https://www.gimp.org/downloads/
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein