Author Topic: Problems with Gray Western 150G  (Read 2648 times)

Online Haf

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Problems with Gray Western 150G
« on: September 19, 2017, 03:56:18 PM »
As I wrote in another post i recently got this nice, as I can see all original, Gray Western 150G. It came without a subset, so I took a 634A subset and a wooden backboard I already had, wired it after a diagram, should be correct but...doesn't work. I know the subset is ok, worked fine with other phones. Wenn the upper housing of the paphone is not mounted the bells ring when called (what they do even if no phone is wired to the subset). But when the upper housing is mounted, they don't, there is only a light twitch of the lever sometimes, but nothing more. No dial tone, not possible to answer call- nothing. My suggestion is, there is maybe a incorrect wired dial or a short somewhere.
I made a picture of my wiring. Note: The white wire is supposed to be green color in the diagram and the yellow wire on very top is just from the payphone controller to the coin relay, not conected to subset.
Any ideas someone?
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline poplar1

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 05:01:51 PM »
I would try to get it to function without the controller first.

The 2 line wires,  4 wires from subset, and 2 receiver wires look OK. What about the upper housing including dial cord and transmitter wires?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 05:20:26 PM »
The yellow wire from the controller is just connected to the phone at the moment and the controller is not active so far, only the wire. The ring tip wires are stright connected between subset and telephone line without the controller.
Have to take pictures of the upper housing, but have to remove the coin chute first. Will do that tomorrow.
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Stan S

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 05:27:50 PM »
Haf
I'm assuming you have an ohm meter.
If you don't we can work around that.
 
The first thing I would do is get a magnifying glass and take a look at the hookswitch contacts FROM THE SIDE. Make sure that they are making contact and breaking. Over time the metal in those switch assemblies fatigues. Of course if you have an ohm meter you can check that electrically. The assembly has 2 single pole switches. Also make sure that there is no continuity between any of the terminals of the hookswitch and the case of the payphone, There are insulating tubes around the mounting screws of that switch. Over time they deteriorate and the mounting screws short the blades of the hookswitch to each other and the case of the phone. Also make sure that the switchhook has the insulating peg. If it doesn't the hookswitch will short the front set of contacts to the case.
I attached a large scan of a 150G diagram below.  Much easier to read!
Stan S.

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 12:48:55 PM »
Stan, yes I have an ohm meter but I'm not really familiar wit its use. But I tried and looked carefully and detected a problem. The two "tongues" at the rear didn't make contakt as the rear one was a little bent backwards (you can see it on the on hook picture). Corrected this and then both making contact and break.
Remounted the upper housing again, conected with line and getting something different now.
When I lift the receiver I have a dialtone (same with or without inserting coin), when going off hook the receiver gets quiet. When sratching with fingernail at the transmitter can be heard in the receiver. Dialing only breaks dialtone during dialing, but after I still have a dialtone. You can hear the dial in the receiver. Bells still do not ring when upper housing in place. And my PBX where the phone is connectd with always signalizes off hook as long as phone is connected or upper housing in place.
I also took a closer look at the upper housing itself. It seems that there are only 3 wires (the rubber ones, black yellow blue) come from the dial but there seems to be a (black) jumber. No white wire like in the diagram. Took pictures.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 12:53:00 PM by Haf »
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 12:55:38 PM »
I forgot to mention, mesured between the hookswitch contacts and housing, no short. And another picture from the upper housing connector.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 01:01:56 PM by Haf »
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Stan S

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 04:18:43 PM »
Haf
Well, you are making headway.
There has to be four wires in the dial harness. Two for the pulsing contacts and two for muting of the receiver.
I'd pull out the dial and the harness and make sure it's wired like the diagram at both ends.
 
After you correct the dial wiring, if putting the top on the phone still causes a problem it's probably the alignment of the 'saw tooth contacts' in the top and the blades on the back casting. Since we don't have have X ray vision the only way to make sure the alignment is correct is to remove the bottom of the payphone, sit the phone on its back and put the top on it. With no bottom on the phone you will be able to look inside and see if all of the contacts are positioned correctly. I've had situations where one of the 'saw tooth contacts' in the top was bent. When that happens the bent contact will push the blade on the back casting to far back, shorting that blade and the one in back of it together. The positions of the 'saw tooth contacts' are what separate the blades on the back casting when the top is on the payphone. Unfortunately there's no way of seeing any of this with the bottom on the payphone.

Stan S.

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 06:44:46 PM »
Stan,
thank you for your reply. I took another look at the  connector block and yes, you are right, there are 4 wires from dial. But there was also an obviously not original jumper wire between BB YY and W, see picture. I removed that as not shown in the diagram. Pulled out the dial, everything wired like it should. But good to know that the dial is dated  IV 31 too, same as upper housing. Then took a look at the blades and noticed the two screws holding the complete block were very loose, so tightend them carefully. Mounted upper housing but still same, pbx shows phone always off hook, when lifting receiver hear a dialtone, when off hook silences but as said, phone seems to be off hook, no matter if the  reciver is hooked or not. But as the dialtone in the receiver silences when putting on the hook I believe that the hook springs work correct. Error must be somewhere else.

Made some more tests...sometimes I would wish you were not always right as now I have to remove the bottom of the phone. I unlocked the upper housing and moved it a bit around and suddenly the pbx shows on hook, but when lifting the phones receiver going off hook and get a dialtone. And can call the phone, it rings, can answer the phone, receiver and transmitter work fine. Dialing was difficuld but as you move the upper housing just a little bit it starts to going off hook all time again.
I wish there was another solution without removing the bottom of the payphone. Well, will do that tomorrow, half past midnight here now. Thank you again for your help.

Haf
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Stan S

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2017, 12:44:24 AM »
Haf
Yes, taking the bottom off is a lot of work. Hopefully the screws for the coin box track and the two large screws that hold the bottom to the back casting from the inside are not very tight.

Without the bottom and with the payphone laying on its back, along with being able to see what's going on you can also stick your hand inside and move things around while you slightly lift the top of the phone with it plugged into your pbx. Should make finding the problem very easy.

Stan S.

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 04:00:25 PM »
Before  taking of the bottom (did that today on another payphone just for training purposes not to damage the 150G if I do that one) I tried something else first. I loosened the two screws from the blades again so that each blade has more space to move. Now I can mount the upper housing without the error. So far so good (I know that I have to aligne the contacts properly in future). Now I can call the phone, bells ring. I can answer the call, receiver and transmitter work and can end the call. PBX tells me phone is going off hook and on again correct. But...I get a dial tone without depositing money, should not be. And I can't dial. The figures 1-6 do nothing, figure 7-0 break dial tone but when check what I dialed on pc, only single figure 1 is dialed mostly, sometimes a figure 3 and a 4 and only single time dialed the two figures 11. And I connected the phone to the controller and -very strange- don't have a dial tone, with or without money, can't call the phone, bells don't ring and cant go off or on hook and no reaction of the coin relay. very strange, I'm clueless. And still have no idea what that black jumper wire had done once.
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Stan S

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 05:00:10 PM »
Haf
Eventually you will have to align the top and bottom transfer contacts. Meaning EVENTUALLY you will have to take off the bottom to do it properly.
The dial not dialing the proper numbers is another problem. You might try soaking it in some sort of solvent. I use lighter fluid to clean out old oil and dirt then put a few drops of clock oil on the gear pivot points. Sometimes that works most times NOT. All depends on how much wear the dial got over its lifetime.
If the controller doesn't 'see' about 600 ohms between the red and the green leads it won't respond. If the payphone is terminating the pbx (appears to be doing that) the controller should also respond.

Stan S.

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 05:30:22 PM »
Stan,

yes I know I have to take of the bottom to align the top and bottom contacts and I will do so, no question about it. I just wanted to run some test before unmounting everything. Just for testing I will swap dials, have a proofed working #4 202 dial here. After that I will take of the bottom.
Why the controller doesn't do anything is strange, becourse it always worked fine with an AE Payphone on the same line before (but no subset needed for that payphone). And directly conected to the PBX it works except dial and with controller inbetween doesn't. but I can check that later. Another thing is, as I already wrote, connected to PBX I always get a dial tone. Don't have to deposit a Nickel first. 

Haf
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Stan S

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 05:38:50 PM »
Quote
"connected to PBX I always get a dial tone. Don't have to deposit a Nickel first. "

Haf
If you are connecting the tip and ring from the subset directly to the PBX with NO controller in between you should always get a dial tone without an initial deposit. If you have the controller in between and you are getting a dial tone without an initial deposit are any of the lights on the controller lit besides the power light?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 05:44:40 PM by TelePlay »

Online Haf

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 05:48:41 PM »
Stan,

my mistake, wasn't sure if so when connected only to the PBX. I thought the coin has to close contacts then too.

And about the controller, When connected to the controller I don't get a dial tone at all, Bells don't ring when phone is called, and no reaction when going off hook or on hook. Only light on the controller is the power light no matter what I do.
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Stan S

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Re: Problems with Gray Western 150G
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 06:39:14 PM »
Haf
Since the controller breaks both sides of the line before the subset, the ringer wired the way it is will not work. Make sure that you have the yellow lead from the controller hooked to the screw on the switch contact of the coin relay.

Make sure that the other side of the coin relay (with both coils in series) is connected to the TIP (green lead of the controller) and the Tip side of the subset and also brought over to the Tip screw of the payphone. Yes, a two piece payphone with an external subset makes connecting the controller a little complicated.