Author Topic: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring  (Read 442 times)

Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 09:34:13 PM »
 Iíve tried exactly what you said and I donít get a ring. Still donít know really where to connect to ground so I connected it to the frame that holds the bell.

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 10:51:39 PM »
I think they mean a wire connecting the ringer to a half inch solid copper rod about ten feet long driven nine feet into the earth and electrically connected to the dirt with several gallons of concentrated salt water poured down alongside the copper rod. Ground ground. Or a reasonable facsimile.
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Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 10:59:21 PM »
That's a good ground.  :D

Well I have no clue here... I think this will be a ringerless phone for now.
Here's a shot of the base of the ringer showing what might be a reed. I've compared this ringer to one in a 302 and that's the only difference I can see visually.

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 04:29:50 AM »
Here's a shot of the base of the ringer showing what might be a reed. I've compared this ringer to one in a 302 and that's the only difference I can see visually.

Yes, good photo of the reed, a thin, flat piece of metal sandwiched between the two metal pieces holding it at the bottom and two metal pieces holding it to the clapper wire, It's the part in the white box (second image below) that is the working part of the reed, the part that is tuned based on its type of metal, width and thickness) along with the clapper and the coils themselves which allow the bottom plate across both coils to move when a specific ringing frequency voltage is sent into the phone and the result is ringing the bell.

The other tuned part, the clapper shown in the first image example, would look something like your phone's clapper if you took the guard off covering the clapper between the gongs. It is a specific weight at a certain position on the rod that is used to tune the ringer along with the reed and the coils.

In contrast, the 3rd image is an example of a 302 ringer showing the axle instead of the reed which allows the plate across the bottom of both coils to pivot instead of flex when it is attracted to the coils (electromagnetically) at 20 Hz, a straight line ringer. The small, fixed clapper and spring make up the rest of the working mechanism and you can see the clapper is a small, fixed position ball needed just to hit the gongs, tuning is not needed or used. The bias spring is used to keep the clapper from tinkling the gongs when another phone on the line is dialed and is adjustable to increase or decrease the impact of the clapper on the gongs.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:34:58 AM by TelePlay »
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Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2017, 10:31:42 AM »
Can you take a picture of how you have it wired up and is functioning. Right now there is a lot of guess work. It would help. With the test you did, did the clapper vibrate at all?

Was the phone working when you did this test?

Ground would be on your connection terminals with another wire on it.....Doug
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 10:35:15 AM by Doug Rose »
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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 11:50:13 AM »
Ground would be on your connection terminals with another wire on it.....Doug

Is this the "ultimate ground" connection being suggested to some terminal on the strip or some other point in the phone or is there a "relative ground" point in the phones wiring that would be on the terminal strip or some other point?

Telephones had black an yellow and then yellow which was the ground circuit to the CO designated ground (IIRC) but yellow is not used, an open circuit or no circuit today. So what's bridged from what to which ground point?

As you can see, I'm totally ignorant on the use of ground in a phone circuit with just red and green or are you saying red or green act as the ground and it doesn't matter which is used for the bridge?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:00:17 PM by TelePlay »
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Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 10:51:07 PM »
Can you take a picture of how you have it wired up and is functioning. Right now there is a lot of guess work. It would help. With the test you did, did the clapper vibrate at all?

Was the phone working when you did this test?

Ground would be on your connection terminals with another wire on it.....Doug

I have green and red (from the line) to positions 3 and 5 on the phone. I put a lead to a "case ground" on R and then G. I get dial tone both ways but the phone doesn't ring with either side connected to case ground. No vibration, nothing. I can post a picture but it will just show my alligator clips!

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 08:34:44 AM »
Once again, case ground is not the ground for the ringing. Keep everything wired as is, pos 3 connect another wire to it. Call the phone and start at pos 1 touching the wire to it. If there is no ring or a disconnect put it on pos 2 etc.....Doug
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Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2017, 01:32:51 AM »
I tried all that... nothing. No rings. But while we're here... what the heck is this part? It's just below the terminal board. There's 1,2 on one side and a 3,4 on the other. It looks almost like a giant resistor.

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2017, 07:33:24 AM »
Connections to the coil windings.

The coil has two windings, 4 ends like this (numbers may be wrong, it's either 1 to 3 and 1 to 4 or 2 to 3 and 2 to 4).

These diagrams are an example showing the coil, they are not necessarily the diagram for your phone.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 08:52:02 AM by TelePlay »
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Offline shortrackskater

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 09:09:01 PM »
Thank you! That makes a little more sense now. Still that coil looks odd with all those little rods "stacked" in there.
I'm not sure where to go from here after trying what Doug suggested.
I'd love to be able to do some mod and make this phone ring on my land line.

Offline RB

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Re: Kellogg "hotel" or "residence" phone - won't ring
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2017, 11:48:40 AM »
Replace the ringer with a straight line ringer.
may solve the issues? and be less of a headache.