Author Topic: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones  (Read 1615 times)

Offline dsk

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 03:26:05 PM »
How does the recording sound in your ears? 
dsk

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 03:31:56 PM »
Your recording sounds the same as my two Panasonics, but the tone I put together in Audacity to try and replicate it sounds more like a regular dialtone from a phoneline, I don't know how the Panasonic tone is generated, but it seems to be different somehow...

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 04:15:43 PM »
This is not a reply, nothing to add to the conversation, but I got to say you guys are deep into the weeds in this topic and I love it. Following along and learning new stuff (like that mechanical tone interrupter video), etc.

One suggestion, Audacity generates such a clean, clear tone at one frequency, anyone want to try to "fuzz" up each of the two used to see if that sound more like the old sound.

I did a quick and dirty mix of 350 and 450, each on two different tracks, and then used the Audacity Whawha effect to dirty up the tones. I used a different setting for each track using settings about 3, 0, 100, 10, 90 for one track and then slightly different for the second track and then mixed them down into one mono track and got the attached file (sorry, it's a wav file in a zipped folder - no time to upload it to YouTube). Whawha was the first effect I tried that sort of worked. Other effects may be betterv - short on time here.

It's not perfect but shows you can dirty up each tone, using whatever effect you want, to make each tone fuzzy but different so the combination of both tracks yields, in this case, what I attached  - something not like the pure tones.

You have to download and open the zipped folder to play the wav file.
            John . . .

              

Online Haf

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 04:58:22 PM »
Thanks for all your suggestions. I guess how to generate the tone is quite clear (for the ones able to understand those diagrams, ...so not soo clear to me), take a look on the link I posted. I wish phonesrfun would join at this point as he seems to have done it all before. But still the problem how to supply to my phones. It seems to be easy solved if you know which part of the pbx support the tone and simply change it by uploading something that is more appropriate- I don't have the slightest idea how ;) Of course the Auerswald has the possibility to connect an extern sound device, but only for announcements or whatever, tone is different, as it has to be the right one according to the status of dialing...dial tone, ringback tone, busy tone. Bit more complicated. If no solution can be found here I will again write to the manufacturer if he sees any possibility in uploading it to the pbx. If anybody should know about how this can be done, he should.
But mayb we'll find something else.

Oh, and dsk, I found something for you:

http://www.bayern-online.com/v2261/artikel.cfm/203/Ruf-u-Signalmaschine.html

Tone generator from Norway :)

Haf
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 05:10:43 PM by Haf »
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Offline Owain

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 06:12:25 PM »
Use a VoIP ATA (analogue terminal adapter) to provide the US tones to the phone, and the FXO / line pass through port to connect to your switchboard, and set the ATA dial plan to route all outgoing calls to the FXO line. This will give you US dialling tone, but all the other call progress tones will be returned by your switchboard.




Online Haf

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 07:06:10 PM »
Owain,

even if I just understand half of it (sorry for my lack of knowledge) it sounds maybe promising.

But I just regognized I should better explain my current setup.

My main provider is German telekom, providing me with internet and VoIP phone (only one available here in Germany, POTS and ISDN are discontinued). After first wall outlet there is my Speedport W 925V router. This one manges the VoIP numbers from German Telekom and my other VoIP providers, like a very basic PBX. But it has simulated ISDN via S0 Bus, this is where my Auerswald PBX is connected to. It's a ISDN PBX. From the Auerswald all my phone numbers (8 at the moment, 6 German, 2 US phone numbers) are divided to the belonging phones. At least 1 for each number.

Were would you suggest to integrate the ATA? After the router but ahead of the Auerswald? I have to admit I don't really know much about ATA's. Does the ATA provide dial tone itself? And what about ringing voltage an frequency? My PBX has a ringing frequency of 25 Hz, 30 Hz would do to, but 50 Hz for example won't. All my phones need a frequency of about 25-30 Hz and pulse dialing of course.

Haf


« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 07:14:01 PM by Haf »
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Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 07:26:50 PM »
Is it possible to alter the tones on your VoIP box? I think I set my Linksys PAP2T to different tones & cadences (for fun) in the past through its' advanced settings pages, so that could be a way to change tones to ones you like, though I don't know if it'll do the "city tone" that was shown earlier... :)

Online Haf

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2018, 07:41:11 PM »
twocvbloke,

no I don't think so. As I wrote, only a very basic PBX. The Auerswald can alter the ringing cadences (but not the tones sadly), as far I remember I have about 9 or more different ringing schemes (which are not in use now but maybe helpful when simulating party line ringing)

Oh, and I forgot to mention that my home is wired with a special payphone line, 3 wires, R, T and GND for the 110 volts to operate the coin relays of my payphones. All controlled in my own little "Central Office" with Stan's controller. But this has nothing to do with my problem discussed here of course.
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Offline dsk

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2018, 02:42:42 AM »



Oh, and dsk, I found something for you:

http://www.bayern-online.com/v2261/artikel.cfm/203/Ruf-u-Signalmaschine.html

Tone generator from Norway :)

Haf


Great!
Now, take a good look at it and make 2, then adjust speed until you get the right tones, then connect it to replace your sound source in your exchange ... problem solved!   ;D ;D ;D



I hope listening to the sound I recorded helped you about deciding to test or not to test a Panasonic.

Another problem with those really old dial tones are the interference with the DTMF recognision, that makes the ATA idea less worth, you need the exchange accepting pulses, changing the dial tone may result in an exchange not accepting touch tones.

After some advice's from other hobbyists my payphone (AE 120B) has a dial tone on the ATA made of 200 and 233 Hz, this is not the old dial tone, but most people do recognize it as the old dial tone. DTMF works great.

With the right setup on the linksys pap2t and a diy payphone controller the phone collects if party answers, and returns when no answer.  All calls: 25 cents  :)


dsk

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline Stan S

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2018, 03:06:56 PM »
Haf
Assuming you were able to use a Panasonic 616 or similar PBX in Germany would it give you all the tones you're looking for without any further complications?
Stan S.

Online Haf

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2018, 03:23:15 PM »
Stan,

as I learned here, the Panasonic has its own tone, not the real North American dial tone. If there would be another PBX providing correct tones and able to handle old pulse dialing phones- yes, that would be a solution. If anybody knows a PBX doing that, I would be glad to hear about.

Oh..and all the tones, well..old dial tone rather not, no matter what PBX I guess, unless tones are changeable or able to modify.

Haf
Telephone:
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001-415-449-4743

Offline dsk

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2018, 04:04:51 PM »
The PAX from TN dated 1972 had a tone unit as a module, this one modulated the tone (transistors), and a rotating motor with Cams made the dial tone (morse signal) busy and ringing, I  am pretty sure this could be replaced with some other tone source(s) I that might be an idea. T&N should be available in your country.

dsk

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Online Haf

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2018, 04:24:46 PM »
dsk,

most RSM (Ruf- und Signalmaschine) here where build either by Siemens or Lorenz. T&N made ones too? well, I found some on ebay but missed them. Those units show up on ebay from time to time and are not that expensive:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ruf-und-Signal-Maschine-2-VA-C-Lorenz/162771415898?hash=item25e5eeb35a:g:yBcAAOSwldRaFzkC

https://www.ebay.de/itm/RSM-15-VA-Ruf-und-Signal-Maschine-SIEMENS-Fg-RSM-60-15-19-Nr-L2-458/322947635405?hash=item4b312dd8cd:g:kYQAAOSwCMFaOWeX

https://www.ebay.de/itm/RSM-Ruf-und-Signalmaschine-aus-Bundespost-oder-Bundesbahn-Vermittlung/202124805060?hash=item2f0f93c3c4:g:QAEAAOSwZB9aGZK-

But...they produce German dial tone again. I don't know if you can modify them to produce US city dial tone, even if those where build similar with cams. The one in the picture would be just perfect...but I don't want to imagine shipping costs if ever possible to get one at all.

And if I take and possible modify the German RSM, still have to integrate it into my system somehow. Or change everything to a PAX like you have. Btw, do you know about electricity prices here? ;)

I just found something interesting (to save as pdf you have to upgrade to premium, didn't want to do that, so only the link)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electromechanical-Tone-Generator/

Way obove my abilities and knowledge of understanding, but for those of you who understand maybe something of interest

Haf
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 04:56:47 PM by Haf »
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Offline Payphone installer

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2018, 07:23:06 AM »
I think this would dowhat you want,I used them in the payphone industry. You insert one or more dial tones and it shares it over multiple stations. The dial tone generated is fake American dial tone on the phone placed on the station side. So the trunk plunged in I assume it only sees the voltage. So it should translate the dial tone. In other words you would never hear the dial tone except for what is genarated by the line share device. It can also be daisy changed. So you could provide dial tone to a entire collection without having to buy a PBX these are also fairly cheap and do appear on eBay.

http://www.lineshare.com/products/specifications/series4000_mod4000.htm

Offline Owain

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Re: Searching the best way to provide North American dial tone to my phones
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2018, 12:05:31 PM »
Were would you suggest to integrate the ATA? After the router but ahead of the Auerswald? I have to admit I don't really know much about ATA's. Does the ATA provide dial tone itself? And what about ringing voltage an frequency?

The ATA would go on the analogue extension ports of the Auerswald, and the ATA provides dialling tone, and ringing voltage/frequency/cadence for VoIP calls -- different ATA might provide ringing voltage/frequency/cadence for analogue calls, or might simply pass-through the analogue line.

You'd need one ATA for each analogue extension port.  Some handle pulse dialling, some don't.