Author Topic: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets  (Read 963 times)

Offline Butch Harlow

  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2018, 09:21:36 PM »
I have mine wired to a 634 subset with 101a coil, but yes 4 wires. its an anti sidetone phone. To wire it sidetone you have to wire the phone like a 102, then it'll work on a 3 wire subset cord. These diagram threads sure helped me a million times. http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.0

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2018, 09:27:09 PM »
Yes, there should be a 4-conductor cord between the 202 and the 684A subset. (BK on dial to BK terminal in subset).

However, I don't know why you don't have a dial tone without the black wire. When I try disconnecting the black wire of my kitchen 202 from the BK terminal in the 634A subset, I still have dial tone, but with less side tone reduction.

Can you provide photo of the inside of the 202 base?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2018, 09:45:06 PM »
Butch: I used those excellent diagrams, but I didn't see one for a 102.

Poplar1:  my first post in this thread has a photo of my 202 internal wiring.  I can provide more photos or info if needed.  The phone is wired exactly as shown for a 202 in the diagram mentioned by Butch with E1 handset, except for the 4th black wire from dial BK.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 09:50:02 PM by Ed Morris »
Ed

Offline Butch Harlow

  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2018, 09:50:46 PM »
102 wiring and 202 wiring are the same minus the black wire. Also, isn't that just a 195A 4 wire condenser in that subset?

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2018, 09:56:55 PM »
There must be a problem with the subset, then, other than the capacitor. You should have dial tone without the black wire.

Do you have a parts 302 that you could borrow the base from?

I don't agree that a 3-conductor cord can be used (permanently) if connected to R,  GN,  and L2 in the subset. This leaves the capacitor out of the circuit.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2018, 10:17:57 PM »
I don't have a parts 302 base.

Here's how I wired the 202 to the 684 with the three wire (red/green/yellow cord that came with the 202:

Green wire from 202 GN to 684 GN
Yellow wire from 202 Y to 684 L2
Red wire from 202 R to 684 R

With this hookup as above, no dial tone, but phone rings, and dial tested ok.

Adding a jumper from 202 BK to 684 BK and a good 2uF cap, I got a dial tone, phone rings, dial works.

Butch, yes 195A cap.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 10:27:30 PM by Ed Morris »
Ed

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2018, 10:34:16 PM »
I can't tell from the pictures, but if you don't have dial tone with the capacitor (black and red) disconnected, and no black mounting cord wire, then there is definitely something wrong that won't be corrected by replacing the capacitor and 4-conductor cord.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2018, 10:47:02 PM »
The ringer works, so the 1uF cap to the ringer is ok.  I know the 2uF cap is open.  The only other component in the 684 is the 146 coil.  So I assume there must be a problem with the coil?  My "untested" 684 subset seems to be a dud.
Ed

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5866
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2018, 11:09:58 PM »
Is the induction coil a 46C or 146C?

With all the wires removed from the coil, the 146C and 101A induction coil should have approximately the following resistances:

                     L1-R = 22 ohms (primary)

                     GN-C = 19 ohms

                     GN-R =  75 ohms


« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 11:27:37 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2018, 11:29:59 PM »
Thanks!  I will check out the resistances tomorrow, and verify which coil I have, too,
Ed

Offline Butch Harlow

  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2018, 08:59:51 AM »
This is at least turning out to be very interesting. You do have all the fun, don't you, Ed?

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2018, 04:07:21 PM »
Interesting, Butch, but frustrating, too.

Poplar1:  You are right.  Looks like the 146 coil between GN and R is open.  Here are my observations:

L1 - R: 14.9 ohms

GN - C:  9.5 ohms

GN - R:  Open

The other two windings are also a good bit off from the values you posted above.

I suppose my best bet would be to replace the 146 coil with a 101A and add a 2uF capacitor.  Know anyone who sells 101A coils? ::)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 04:22:25 PM by Ed Morris »
Ed

Online Haf

  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2018, 05:20:41 PM »
  Know anyone who sells 101A coils? ::)

there are several listed on ebay at the moment.

Haf
Telephone:
0049-030-55474418
001-415-449-4743

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2018, 07:15:16 PM »
Yes, and I've bought one!
Ed

Offline Ed Morris

  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • Edsantiqueradios.com
Re: Pair of Western Electric D1/202 Sets
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2018, 02:26:19 PM »
While I'm waiting for my 101A coil to arrive, I finished up the other WE202 phone I bought with the one shown above.  I could not get the 5H dial to work correctly.  It appears the timing is way off.  On the BK 1045 tester, no pulses are detected until you dial a 5, which registers as a 1, 6 registers as 2, 7 as 3, and so on.  Cleaning and lubricating didn't help, which is the extent of my dial servicing knowledge.  So I found a working 5H and swapped it out for the bad one.

I decided not to buy a subset for this phone; instead I installed a micro R-C network inside the base, which allowed me to use a mounting cord with a modular connector.   I used the R-C network described by Markosjal in his thread at this link:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18142.msg186888#msg186888

You can see a photo and diagram of my version of the micro R-C network at the same link.

I had a nice dial card from another phone that I used with the 202.

Ed