Author Topic: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question  (Read 281 times)

Offline RotoTech99

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Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« on: March 01, 2018, 08:52:45 PM »
Dear Forum:

I have a Stromberg-Carlson 1543 desk phone with a SC type 85 split coil straight line biased ringer that I need to know the proper connections to the network, please.

I believe the black wire goes to C1 on the network, and the red wire to either 2 or 3;
My practice's wiring diagram references the 73 and 74 ringers, but doesn't mention  the 84 or 85 biased type ringers.

I'm guessing the 84 and 85 ringers superseded or replaced the 73/74 ringers.

Also, the slate and slate/red wires are taped, but I cannot tell if they are taped together, or were just done that way to store them...I've heard the two wires are taped together so the ringer will function correctly, does anyone know, please?

If anyone knows how the SC 85 Type split coil straight line biased ringer is supposed to be connected to the SC-1543 network, I would appreciate any advice and assistance, please.

I will comment that the Type 85 ringer is a good substitute for the 73/74 ringers, and I like that the gongs are mounted on the ringer frame instead of separately.

Rototech99

Offline Wayback Mike

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 12:33:47 AM »
I have a diagram that shows the ringer connections for a 74A, 74B or 73 ringer as being terminals C1 and 2.  The capacitor appears to be internal to the ringer so you may need to add one with the type 85.  Guessing here but I would first try those other two wires either connected to each other or they might be an insertion point for the capacitor.  I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people here than me but my method is to keep trying stuff until something works... with a little help from all the good info to be had here on this board.

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 06:58:44 AM »
Dear Wayback Mike:

Hello.

My SC Type 85 has a ,47uF capacitor mounted on the frame and connected to the ringer.

The ringer itself is a straight line biased ringer.

I'm mainly trying to figure out if it was connected they same way as 74 straight line ringer, and 84 straight line ringer...the taped slate and slate/red leads are what puzzles me the most.

I don't know if they were taped together to establish a connection so the Type 85 would function correctly, or if the leads simply to store them.

As I mentioned, I'm guessing it would connect the same as the 74 and. 84 biased straight line ringer, but I'd like to get a definitive answer before making the change.

Thanks for replying
Rototech99
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 07:04:24 AM by RotoTech99 »

Offline Wayback Mike

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 12:24:48 PM »
In every case I've encountered so far, the ringer circuit at its most basic level is dead simple: a series connection from L1 through the capacitor, the ringer coil(s) and back to L2.  I frequently check ringers by connecting them directly to the line with a capacitor in series to make sure they work before tearing my hair out.

Since your ringer is a "split coil" it probably means that the slate and slate/red wires need to be connected together to make a complete circuit through both coils.  There's a version of the WE ringer found in 302s where that's the case so I'm reasoning by analogy.

These old components are almost indestructible electrically so if I were in your position I would first make sure the ringer works by connecting it directly to the line with a capacitor.  Try to ring it with the slate slate/red not connected to each other.  If that doesn't work, connect them, try again and see what happens.  If the ringer doesn't work in one of those configurations, you may have a bigger problem with the ringer. 

Once you know for certain that you have a working ringer, you already know where to connect it - C1 and 2. 

I'm not the world's best trouble shooter but those are the steps I'd be taking, fwiw.  I hope that helps.

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 12:42:35 PM »
Dear Wayback Mike:

I can say this much for sure, the ringer works when connected to C1 & L1, or L2; I can't recall which at the moment..

I'm thinking about trying it as the wiring diagram shows. I'm not a big fan of "wiring hookups I don't recognize" that don't match up to a diagram.

If they work in the config. they're in, I usually leave it that way, mainly for conservative reasons.

I've heard that the SC1543's often had wiring that didn't follow the diagram, but would make the set work satisfactorily, this amazes me to no end, but it is nice.

Quite possibly, the oddest problem with a SC1543 I had was the housing didn't quite fit, I guess from shrinkage overall... I had to trim the baseplate a bit, and use a flat rasp to widen out the dial opening and cradle arm openings, so now the housing fits with a slight "bow out" at the back.

The plastic is Tenite 2 as SC calls it, and one refurbisher I spoke to says they haven't had issues with that with 1543's, but said it's possible.

Tenite 2 is a early thermoplastic, and I've heard that early thermoplastics are prone to shrinkage; either unevenly or evenly.

Thanks,
Rototech99

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2018, 10:04:00 AM »
Dear Wayback Mike and Forum:

I found a post in CRPF regarding the SC Type 85 split coil ringer that mentioned the connections in a SC1543..

According to the thread, it said the ringer connected to C2 & L1, I believe the red ringer wire went to C2, and the black lead to L1.

I did find out the slate and slate/red leads do have to be taped together for proper ringing.

However, I'm unsure if I've "interposed" the connections, as I had the thread and lost it when I went to another page.

Can someone please see if they can find the thread, and/or verify the connections, please?

Thank you,
Rototech99

Online rdelius

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2018, 01:14:53 PM »
On my 1543w set with a 210640-ra network,the ringer capacator is not in the network but is in series with the ringer and cliped in a bracket.Watch out on SC sets if they were in use and rebuilt the networks along with the 1243 and 1443 look similar but wire differently.the ringer capacators were often leakly 

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 01:41:45 PM »
Dear rdelius:

I found the connections I was looking for in regard to my Type 85 split coil ringer inquiry..

BTW: The ringer rings loudly, I just thought somebody jury rigged it; I haven't seen a SC ringer, split coil or otherwise connected that way.

BTW #2: My cap. for my Type 85 ringer is mounted in a clip on the ringer frame. It has always rang well, but it has been in storage a while.

The oddest problem I had was the replacement housing I had fitted a bit off, because it shrunk somehow... I had to do a little work to get it to fit by filing out the cradle openings and the dial opening a little, in addition to trimming the baseplate a little.

The shrinkage, which is odd for a Tenite II housing as I understand it; bows out slightly at where the housing screw goes, but that's mainly cosmetic.

The original thread mentioned a 1553, but that shouldn't be a difference in how the Type 85 is wired as the 1553 is basically a 1543 mounted on a wall.

I've only seen a couple 1543's with a Type. 85 ringer wired like that; there's no wiring  diagram that deals with that specifically.

And the only one that comes close is the one that covers the #74 ringers.

I know the connections now, and why the slate and slate-red leads are taped together, so all I should need to do is connect the black and red ringer leads to where they should be.

Rototech99
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 02:03:21 PM by RotoTech99 »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 02:14:13 PM »
Dear rdelius:

I know the ringer capacitor for the SC straight line and st. line split coil ringers are .47uf, but what's the voltage rating on it, please?

Most I've seen are either .47uF, 250 VDC, or .47uF, 400 VDC, even with the Stromberg 1543 straight line ringers.

Do you know, or have a picture of a SC straight line ringer & cap. from a 1543 or similar set with a st. line ringer you could send a picture of it's markings of, please?

Thank you,
Rototech99

Online rdelius

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 12:39:19 AM »
The voltage rating should be at least twice the working voltage. Recommend at least 250 to 400 v.These are  not electrolytic .

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 12:52:51 AM »
Dear. rdelius:

Thank you for the additional information.. If it isn't too much extra trouble, can you send pictures of the capacitor markings,  please?

Thanks,
Rototech99

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2018, 02:07:03 PM »
Dear Forum, redlius & Way back Mike:

I took some time today to look at my SC #85 split coil ringer and its capacitor, and wiring...Here is what I have found out:

The ringer is dated June, 1966 and is a Type 85 split coil biased ringer. The capacitor is a #202858-475, .47uF capacitor for a Type 84A ringer.

The capacitor that is for the Type 85 ringer is a 205031-799 .47uF, so my best guess is that the cap. for the 84A was installed became it was compatible (being the same rating as the one normally used for the Type 85).

If anyone has feedback, or comments on my topic, I would greatly appreciate them as it will help me learn more about SC 1543's with this type ringer.

Thank you,
Rototech99

Offline RB

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 02:16:29 PM »
Hi
you have a correct cap, and have verified the ringer works.
your setup should be good to go.

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: Stromberg Type 85 split coil ringer used in SC-1543 Question
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 02:38:54 PM »
Dear RB:

Yes, my Type 85 split coil ringer functions fine; I had the connections mixed up, which prompted me to look up the information.

The capacitor surprised me a little in the sense that both of the two capacitors I mentioned will work with the Type 85 ringer.

One thing I am doing to help me remember is to create a wiring diagram reflecting what I know about my SC 1543 with a SC 85 type ringer. I didn't see a diagram that dealt with a 1543 with the Type 85, so I thought creating a diagram that represented that might encourage someone to give feedback and maybe improve upon the diagram.

Basically, I'm taking a original SC 1543 diagram, and making changes to represent the 1543 with the Type 85 ringer wiring. As I'm aware it could cover other SC sets using that ringer, I'm considering that as well.

The only diagrams I've seen referencing the Type 85 ringer is in the diagram for SC 1546 sets.

The one thing I'm having a little difficulty with is a drawing to represent the Type 85 ringer on the diagram; I've put a drawing draft of what I thought it might look like.

I plan to post it, and see if the CRPF members can help improve my draft diagram.

I hope to post it in the next couple of days, and any feedback is welcomed.

Rototech99