Author Topic: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions  (Read 499 times)

Offline OldPhoneUser

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2018, 03:11:51 AM »
the dialing problem is all set. 

just trying to figure out the subset/network solution.  I have a 584DE ringer box that I think I can add a 101A coil to (and condensers?) that will make it a proper subset.  I think...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 03:48:50 AM by OldPhoneUser »

Offline poplar1

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2018, 06:06:59 AM »
The 302 was designated a "combined" or "C" set: it literally combined the 202  and the 684 subset into one telephone set.

If you open the 302 you will notice that the housing (shell) contains the dial, hookswitch (to hang up the phone) and the black and white handset wires connecting to BK and W screw terminals on the dial.

The base of the phone contains the ringer, 101A induction coil, and  condenser (now called capacitor).

So, the housing is equivalent to the 202, and the base is equivalent to the 684 subset.

Using the 202 without the subset would be like tossing the parts mounted to the base in your 302. Or maybe like that guy in Carrollton, GA that you could hear approaching from blocks away because he always drove his Model A in 1st gear.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline OldPhoneUser

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2018, 09:54:58 AM »
thanks poplar, that example helps me understand the situation better!

basically, I am understanding that the subset protects the handset coils from ring voltage. exposing those to ring voltage without a subset weakens the magnets, making the volume lower over time at both ends.   I think the subset also helps in other ways, still trying to read all these topics and get my head around it.

I have a 101A coil on the way, and am considering ordering that mini network option as well.

does anyone know what the value of the condenser was? I have plenty of capacitors around.

 

Offline Zunazet

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2018, 11:03:34 AM »
The cheater circuit and much more are in this thread:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.0

Offline poplar1

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2018, 11:24:33 AM »
thanks poplar, that example helps me understand the situation better!

basically, I am understanding that the subset protects the handset coils from ring voltage. exposing those to ring voltage without a subset weakens the magnets, making the volume lower over time at both ends.   I think the subset also helps in other ways, still trying to read all these topics and get my head around it.

I have a 101A coil on the way, and am considering ordering that mini network option as well.

does anyone know what the value of the condenser was? I have plenty of capacitors around.

 

Capacitors are approx. 0.5 uF for the ringer and 2.0 uF for the talk circuit.

The ringer is always connected, so the capacitor blocks the DC of the telephone line; otherwise, the ringer would keep the line "off-hook" and you would not be able to receive any calls or dial out.

The talk circuit is disconnected when the phone is hung up. So there is no "exposure to AC ring voltage", unless you count the brief instant while answering the phone if that happens during the ring cycle. Rather, it is current from the talk path that will damage the receiver if there is no talk capacitor.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline OldPhoneUser

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 12:21:18 PM »
thanks poplar, very helpful. I think I am starting to get the fundamentals of it. once I really understand the concept how the subset participates, I can start to learn the circuit and get my 202 and AE wall phone installed correctly.

(probably dumb) question,  I have a 584DE ring box that was installed in my grandparents house around 1935.  It doesnt appear to have a ring isolating capacitor (it has no capacitor in it).  How was this isolated then from the phones so the phone circuit line doesnt stay off hook?


Offline poplar1

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 02:30:27 PM »
584DE originally had a capacitor in series with the ringer.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline OldPhoneUser

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2018, 01:07:38 AM »
I've seen here that a 302 base can be re-purposed for a subset for my 202, and there used to be covers available (couldnt find on ebay).

Question, can a 500 phone base also be used as a subset, or are the electrics different? Reason being, the 500 bell sounds nice and I have one of those phones.

Thanks

Offline HarrySmith

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2018, 01:09:41 AM »
IIRC the 500  can be used but is more work and there is no covers for it. Our own Kleenax makes the 302 covers.
Harry Smith
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TCI

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there is only
do or do not"

Offline OldPhoneUser

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2018, 01:19:11 AM »
IIRC the 500  can be used but is more work and there is no covers for it. Our own Kleenax makes the 302 covers.

thanks Harry, if anyone can say what is the more work... I like the ring better and can make a cover for it.  also, kleenax doesnt have the 302 base covers on ebay at the moment how does he sell em?

Offline OldPhoneUser

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Re: 202 Phone subset requirements and options questions
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2018, 01:31:46 AM »
Found the 500 base as subset info on another topic, here it is:


SUBSTITUTING A 302 OR 500 BASE FOR A SUBSET
For those who don't have a subset, a 302 base may be substituted, in which case the diagram labeled "634/684 101A Induction Coil" is used. 

A 500 or 2500 base may also be used as a subset, in which case the diagram labeled "685 Subset" is used.  When using a 500 or 2500 base as a subset, all the switch hook wires which are soldered to the network should either be unsoldered or snipped off.  Because of this alteration to the network, only a base which has no value and which is unfit or truly not needed for regular telephone service should be used. If you don't wish to unsolder or snip the soldered wires (and that's understandable), they may be left in place, but the switch hook arm must then be tied in the down position, and the dial wiring removed from the network.  Using one of these bases as a subset also requires a jumper wire to be connected between network terminals "RR" and "L1".  Any short piece of thin wire will work for this.