Author Topic: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?  (Read 939 times)

Offline MaximRecoil

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Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« on: September 06, 2018, 11:01:51 AM »
My Western Electric 1C with Protel 8000 chassis is mostly programmed the way I want it to be, but it doesn't behave like a normal extension. For example, if I make or receive a call on one of my regular phones, and during the call I pick up the handset on the payphone, and hang up the regular phone, the call is still connected at first, but after several seconds a recorded voice comes on the line and says something that sounds like "error fix", and then I hear something similar to a "fast busy" signal (but with a different timbre than a normal "fast busy").

There are a few other things I'd like to change if possible too:

When I dial zero on the payphone it dials out to some special payphone operator service ("CTI Intellicall", which is a shady company that drastically overcharges people for collect calls; see here for an example). I want it to just call my phone company's operator the same as it does on my regular phones.

Sometimes late at night when I'm talking on my regular phone, I hear touch tones on the line, like the payphone is trying to dial out. If I pick up the payphone's handset and put it back on the hook, the dial-out attempt stops. As far as I know it has never successfully dialed out, or at least, nothing has ever appeared on my phone bill. I don't want it to ever try to automatically dial out for any reason.

If I leave the payphone off the hook, calls can still come in. I'd rather it behave like a normal phone, i.e., off the hook means the caller gets a busy signal.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 11:32:26 AM by TelePlay »

Offline Key2871

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 11:11:29 AM »
We'll remember, this is a payphone. So it's going to act like one. Those tones you hear later at night is the phone trying to call the number programmed in to let the company know it's daily intake of coins, and what calls were made such as card calls.
So you need to have some things changed for sure. For one is the number it call to report, is that still working, or has it been changed, to some poor guy who gets calls from your phone trying to report.  I know I'd get a little miffed late at night.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 01:54:35 PM by Key2871 »
KEN

Offline MaximRecoil

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 11:34:14 AM »
We'll remember, this is a payphone. So it's going to act like one.

Someone on another forum who used to install payphones and run a payphone route told me that some of them can be programmed to function as a normal extension, but he didn't know if the Protel 8000 could be.

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Those tones you hear later at night is the phone trying to call the number programmed in to let the company know it's daily intake of coins, and what calls were made such as card calls.

So you need to have some things changed for sure. For one is the number it call to report, is that still working, or has it been changed, to some poor guy who gets calls from your phone trying to report.  I know I'd get a little !!!!ed late at night.

Well, like I said, nothing has ever shown up on my phone bill (I've had the payphone hooked up for about 5 years), so if the number it's trying to call is a valid number, it must be a 1-8XX number, which is normally a business rather than a home. The number wouldn't be a local one because the phone came from BellSouth territory, and I live in Maine. 

Offline Protel8000

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 12:13:45 PM »
Have you blanked out the programming and started from the beginning? I know Payphone Installer has (or at least had) a toll free number he uses for his business, where he has set up a number that loads up generic programming. Search from his posts on the forum and you should find it there with the instructions on how to use it.

I have a converted phone with an 8000 board too. It sounds like the other poster said, it's trying to dial in to phone home. This can be disabled with programming via ExpressNet, not sure about from the keypad.

I know on my phone I set up custom routing so that 411, 555-1212, XXX-555-1212, 0, 00, 0+Dialing etc all forward to 1-800-FREE-411. There's a lot of powerful and complex stuff that can be set up with ExpressNet

As for a regular extension, I've never been able to get mine to gracefully let me conference in another extension on the same line or transfer calls between extensions. I think this is an anti-fraud feature because a payphone operator wouldn't want any other devices on the phone line that his phone is running on.

Offline Payphone installer

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 12:31:39 PM »
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Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?


My Western Electric 1C with Protel 8000 chassis is mostly programmed the way I want it to be, but it doesn't behave like a normal extension. For example, if I make or receive a call on one of my regular phones, and during the call I pick up the handset on the payphone, and hang up the regular phone, the call is still connected at first, but after several seconds a recorded voice comes on the line and says something that sounds like "error fix", and then I hear something similar to a "fast busy" signal (but with a different timbre than a normal "fast busy").

There are a few other things I'd like to change if possible too:

When I dial zero on the payphone it dials out to some special payphone operator service ("CTI Intellicall", which is a shady company that drastically overcharges people for collect calls; see here for an example). I want it to just call my phone company's operator the same as it does on my regular phones.

Answer:  This is in the routing of the call and yes it can be fixed if you have accesses to the software.

Sometimes late at night when I'm talking on my regular phone, I hear touch tones on the line, like the payphone is trying to dial out.

Answer: Payphone is trying to call in this can be taken care of in the options file. If you have the software.

If I pick up the pay phone's handset and put it back on the hook, the dial-out attempt stops. As far as I know it has never successfully dialed out, or at least, nothing has ever appeared on my phone bill. I don't want it to ever try to automatically dial out for any reason.

Answer: This is a fraud control that can be disabled in the software. It also could be changed in the routing of incoming calls. If you have access to the software.



If I leave the payphone off the hook, calls can still come in. I'd rather it behave like a normal phone, i.e., off the hook means the caller gets a busy signal.

Answer: The smart payphone will not act like a regular phone because it is a payphone. It is going to release the network every time because that is what it is supposed to do. Its a smart telephone so it not going to tie up the network.

If you download your payphone with the generic program I have listed in my previous it will eliminate some if not all these problems. 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 01:52:21 PM by TelePlay »

Offline MaximRecoil

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 01:53:01 PM »
If you download your payphone with the generic program I have listed in my previous it will eliminate some if not all these problems. 

The problem is, I don't want to lose the existing programming that I have. I had someone program it 5 years ago with a list of all the exchange codes that are local calls from here, and to give unlimited time for $0.25 on a local call, and some other things.

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Answer: The smart payphone will not act like a regular phone because it is a payphone. It is going to release the network every time because that is what it is supposed to do. Its a smart telephone so it not going to tie up the network.

Yes, I know it's a payphone, but some things can be changed via programming to make it act like a normal phone in certain respects, and I was wondering if that was one of the things that can be changed. I don't want it to act like a normal phone in all respects; if I did I'd just install a dumb chassis in it. Ideally, it would require coins to make calls like it currently does, but behave like a normal phone in all other respects.

I would like to be able to program it myself. I have the Expressnet software, but I don't know how to use it. Furthermore, the only dialup modems I have are PCI or onboard Winmodems, and those won't work, because they depend on Windows software to work. Another problem is that I only have one phone line, so I can't call the payphone from a modem that's on the same line, not without a PBX. I may be able to get over all those hurdles eventually, but it won't be anytime soon.

Can you, or anyone else reading this thread, recommend someone who can call my payphone and program it? Payphone.com did it for me 5 years ago, but I don't want to have them do it again because they don't seem to be familiar with all the possible options. For example, I called them a few weeks ago asking about my payphone trying to automatically dial out and the guy told me that that doesn't happen.

Offline Key2871

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 02:03:41 PM »
There may be a way to do it remotely. In other words, they call your phone and change parts of programming to better suit your desires. I'm not sure if that can be done.
KEN

Offline Payphone installer

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 02:18:22 PM »
The generic program I put out there does about everything you are saying. You cannot change the program that is in the phone now as it exists. Unless the exact same computer that called in in the first place talks to it again. That is because when the two were done talking they exchanged a code. Its called a checksum. The only way now to change the programing now is to resetting the board. The program works this way or I would be able o call anybody's phone and reset the program. Its all about security. So even if you get t your expressnet working you would have to reset the phone and create a costing record and a rate and options file. As for the Modem I have protel modems hey work. But they are not cheap. Around 150.00 dollars I will loan one out for a deposit if you just want to program the phone and send it back. Jim

Offline MaximRecoil

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 02:55:14 PM »
The generic program I put out there does about everything you are saying.

But then my phone wouldn't know which exchange codes are local calls from here, right?

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You cannot change the program that is in the phone now as it exists. Unless the exact same computer that called in in the first place talks to it again. That is because when the two were done talking they exchanged a code. Its called a checksum.

Yeah, and Payphone.com can't tweak it even if I wanted them to because they lost all of their records somewhat recently due to a hurricane. They could reprogram it from scratch, for which I'd be charged again, but like I said, I don't want to have them do it because the guy I talked to doesn't even believe that my payphone is trying to dial out periodically.

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As for the Modem I have protel modems hey work. But they are not cheap. Around 150.00 dollars I will loan one out for a deposit if you just want to program the phone and send it back. Jim

Thanks, but I don't know how to use the Expressnet software yet. Do you know if there are any tutorials out there?

Offline Protel8000

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2018, 03:10:08 PM »
Not sure about tutorials for Express net, everything I've learned I've taught myself mostly by reading this forum, talking to Payphone Installer and sigmaz, and just trial and error. I do have a PBX that I basically use as a phone line simulator which does make things easier.

Do you have a list of all of your local exchanges that are covered? I could maybe try to build a config for you this weekend if I have free time. The only thing is, I only have a VoIP ATA so I am not sure how well that would work. I've made it work between two ATAs before but it took a lot of trial and error, and they were both on the local network vs. going out over the internet for traditional VoIP service. You'd also have to call into me which would likely be long distance... and if it failed, like Payphone Installer set the reset to force it to dial out and get new programming is going to clear everything on the board regardless of if the new download goes through or not.

Offline MaximRecoil

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 03:43:17 PM »
Do you have a list of all of your local exchanges that are covered? I could maybe try to build a config for you this weekend if I have free time. The only thing is, I only have a VoIP ATA so I am not sure how well that would work. I've made it work between two ATAs before but it took a lot of trial and error, and they were both on the local network vs. going out over the internet for traditional VoIP service. You'd also have to call into me which would likely be long distance... and if it failed, like Payphone Installer set the reset to force it to dial out and get new programming is going to clear everything on the board regardless of if the new download goes through or not.

I do have a list of my local exchange codes, and I appreciate the offer, but a long distance call from my POTS line would cost an arm and a leg. A few years ago I got rid of the long-distance calling plan on my line, stripping it down to the most basic service / cheapest price possible. They warned me that long-distance calls (especially out-of-state calls) would be very expensive that way, but I didn't care because I use Google Voice for long distance calls for free. I haven't made a single long-distance call dialed directly from my line in about 7 years.

Are you using a non-Protel modem? If so, what is the make/model of it? I would really like to be self-sufficient with this rather than having to depend on others. If I could get a modem that is known to work (preferably one that isn't particularly expensive), and figure out the software, I could go to someone else's house to call in to my payphone. I'm pretty sure my aunt still has a POTS line.

Offline Protel8000

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 04:18:45 PM »
I am using a Zoom 3049 56k v.92 Serial Modem. Here's the spec sheet: http://www.zoomtel.com/graphics/datasheets/dial_up/3049DG_18911_spec.pdf

Also you can dial into your phone from the outside (if it's set up to answer polling calls after x amount of rings, also can be specified to only do this or restrict answering based on time of day), but you're not going to be able to change the programming without first initializing the phone and having the phone itself dial out and into the modem to download a config. Like Payphone Installer said it's a Security feature to make sure random people with ExpressNet can't call into other people's payphones and change their programming.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 08:23:50 PM by TelePlay »

Offline MaximRecoil

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2018, 04:37:17 PM »
I am using a Zoom 3049 56k v.92 Serial Modem. Here's the spec sheet: http://www.zoomtel.com/graphics/datasheets/dial_up/3049DG_18911_spec.pdf

Thanks.

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Also you can dial into your phone from the outside (if it's set up to answer polling calls after x amount of rings, also can be specified to only do this or restrict answering based on time of day), but you're not going to be able to change the programming without first initializing the phone and having the phone itself dial out and into the modem to download a config. Like Payphone Installer said it's a Security feature to make sure random people with ExpressNet can't call into other people's payphones and change their programming.

When Payphone.com programmed my payphone 5 or 6 years ago, I didn't have to do anything aside from resetting the phone or whatever it is they had me do first. They called my number and programmed it. I never called them from the payphone. I don't know if they did something to make the phone automatically call them or not; I only know that I didn't have to do anything after they called my payphone except wait for them to finish.

Offline Payphone installer

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 09:33:38 AM »
You are correct it can be done that why with some prep. The number I have programed I think is 1800 to my network. 

Offline Payphone installer

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Re: Can a Protel 8000 be programmed to work as a normal extension?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 09:38:03 AM »
MaximRecoil another interesting idea would be get a different chassis,download it and see if it works better. They are cheap and easy to find.