Author Topic: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question  (Read 9353 times)

Offline j.bridwell

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43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« on: February 02, 2010, 05:43:51 PM »
I have a WE Space Saver 43A/G1 with 5H dial and 684 subset.  I have restored the 684 with no problems (I restored one earlier with lots of help form the forum - thanks!). 

1. The phone came with a 5-cond subset cord to the 684.  I don't see the need for 5-cond with a 684.  Am I missing something?

2. The diagram I'm using is a 211 diagram from telephonecollectors.org but the diagram is confusing (to me anyway) as there are places where a wire seems to split into separate solid and dashed sections.  For example, the white lead of the handset cord seems to split with a solid line to the W terminal of the hookswitch and a dashed line to the W terminal of the dial.  Am I using the correct schematic?  Is there a correct or better one?

I've searched the forums here with no success.  You think I'd be able to read a schematic after GA Tech, but it was 26 years ago.  Do I need new glasses?

Thanks!

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 06:29:43 PM »
The dashed and solid lines depict the optional wiring of a dial or no dial arrangement.

I thought I'd jump in and say that, but being at work at the moment,  I cannot delve into it to give you a more solid answer.  Someone else may want to jump in at this point.  I can definitely look at this late tonight.

-Bill
-Bill G

Offline Wallphone

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 06:57:29 PM »
Bill is correct. The dashed lines are for the dial and 61M filter if used.
The filter was used mostly in the old days so the dial pulses would not be heard in your AM radio.
Dougpav

Offline j.bridwell

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 08:59:55 PM »
I understand the 61M filter, but all of the connections to the dial are dashed in the schematic.  The handset cord has two conductors (black and white) that appear to each diverge to two separate locations.  I'm stymied.

Offline bingster

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 09:04:20 PM »
Bill, if you'd check my work on this, I'd appreciate it.  I took the diagram and altered it to reflect the dial, without a filter.

j.bridwell, give this a try, I think it should work:
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 12:13:19 AM by bingster »
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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 09:13:37 PM »
Bingster:

Looks good just by looking at it.  My only further comment would be that the cold cathode ringing could be replaced with a straight line ringer.  I will check it more when I get home tonight, but this is much appreciated.  The dashed lines on the dial and filter are confusing to say the least.  Both the dial and the filter are mutually optional, and the phone could have both a dial and a filter, a dial only, or none of each.

Most of us will only want it wired for a dial only withoug the filter.

I had an occasion to wire my 211 not long ago, and I was frustrated by the diagram myself.  This one you have drawn should be saved for posterity.

-Bill
-Bill G

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 09:46:33 PM »
Bingster:

The diagram is correct.

J. Bridwell:  The 684 needs only 4 wires.

-Bill Geurts
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Offline j.bridwell

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 09:47:29 PM »
Now that makes much more sense to me!  This is only the second phone I've purchased and worked on and neither was wired correctly.  Thanks guys.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 11:34:10 PM »
J:

Good luck with it, and we hope to hear that it works.

-Bill Geurts
-Bill G

Offline bingster

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 12:12:30 AM »
My only further comment would be that the cold cathode ringing could be replaced with a straight line ringer. 

Is that what that is in the subset diagram?  I've always wondered what it was, because it didn't match anything I had.  I've changed the diagram to remove that portion and show the proper connection of the ringer.  It still doesn't show the condenser, but that can be found in the standard 684 diagram.
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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 12:30:50 AM »
Yep, that's what it is.  The cold Cathode was Western's solution to making it so a larger number of ringers could be selected on a single party line.

The independants were mostly into frequency selective harmonic ringers.  WE was more into the Cold Cathode tubes, using straight line ringers, and then doing some tricks with line polarity, coupled with which side of the line the ringing current was applied.  I think with cold cathode tubes they could get 8 different combinations of party line ringing using straight line ringers.

Bell System did have frequency ringers, but not nearly as much as the independants.  From what I understand, WE (Bell) did frequency ringing mostly in areas where they had acquired the territory and existing central offices from an independant that was already using frequency ringing.

-Bill
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Offline KeithB

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 10:03:42 PM »
Apologies in advance for reviving a slightly older topic, but I have a question about wiring a 211 of a similar vintage.  Why would Western Electric create a dial cord with three conductors, then still require additional wires from the dial to the switch contacts?  Even the schematic diagram shows three wires grouped together with a dashed circle, labeled "dial cord".  Added to these three are two more connections: one longer white lead from the handset to dial connection W, and another lead from dial connection Y to switch connection BK.

Just ??? wondering....

Offline bingster

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 01:58:53 AM »
  Funny thing about that diagram is that the cord from the "Y" terminal on the dial IS grouped together with the other dial wires into one cord on mine.  I don't know why it's not shown that way on the diagram.  Do others vary from that?  As for the white, it makes sense not to have another connecting block inside a tiny case, and just run the white handset cord all the way up to the dial.
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Offline KeithB

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 08:10:14 AM »
Mine arrived with the original three-wire dial cord, fabric covered, mostly brown, one w/red, another w/blue, the last solid brown.  They're bundled together with thread wrapped around them in the center.  Would the 4H or 5H dials function correctly with only three wires?

Offline bingster

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Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 02:19:20 PM »
I don't think so.  The early dials had four contacts instead of five, so you could probably get by without one, but I think four is absolute minimum. Interestingly, my C1 has a full five-conductor dial cord, while my G1s have four.
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