Author Topic: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question  (Read 9386 times)

Offline bingster

  • Contest Director
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2948
    • OTRplus Classic Radio
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2010, 05:52:54 PM »
The 211 or G-mount (43A is the model of the dial mounting only) was to be used with a 634/684 subset when the phone is equipped with an F1 handset.  The 211 equipped with a more modern G style handset was to be used with a 685 subset.  

I'm sure the subsets of other manufacturers would work, too, but they'd have to be actual subsets, rather than extension ringers (like the little external Automatic Electric ringers).
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 05:56:21 PM by bingster »
= DARRIN =



Offline Babybearjs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1745
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2016, 08:21:43 PM »
there's that wiring diagram I was looking for.... what is the practice code for that.... I can't seem to find it in the library....
John

Offline MGreenwood

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 09:46:11 PM »
Hello All,

I'm new to the forum, so i do apologize if this has been covered elsewhere. I am currently re wiring a WE 211 (43A/G1) with a 5H dial, and have been looking for a wiring schematic. I came across this post and the referenced wiring schematic which does work for my phone. But I also found 2 other wiring diagrams that are different than the one in this post (see attached). I tried using them, and they also work.

So here's my question? Is one wiring method better than the other? Besides the fact that the third option only needs 4 connectors to the network and the other two need 5, is their any advantage to one versus the other? FYI - the second wiring diagram is actually for a 202 telephone, but read elsewhere that it will work for the 211, and it is almost identical to the first diagram attached. Again, both options do work, but I can't help but wonder is there a benefit to one over the other.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 09:52:56 PM by MGreenwood »
Mike Greenwood

Offline unbeldi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5584
  • opus in senio
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 10:20:13 PM »
The first two diagrams you posted are for using a 425B network, while the last one is for an induction coil subscriber set.

The hangup hand telephone sets with a G1 handset mounting were made from 1936 into the 1970s or so, so they were used with all the major subsets of that period and with a multitude of wiring modifications for various services.

When you described yours as 43A/G1, do you mean you have a G1 handset, or a G1 handset mounting, i.e. the instrument itself ?   These handset mountings came in the varieties G1, G2, G3, G6, G7, G8, all with different contact arrangements.

These were equipped with both an F1 handset for use with induction coil subscriber sets, as well as G1 handsets starting in the 1950 for use with network type subscriber sets, such as the 685A which contained the 425B network.

The 425B network has additional technical features than an induction coil subset, such as a 684A or 634A, and the additional features require the use of  five-conductor inside wiring to the subset.  We have had many discussions in the Forum about the virtues of these wiring options.

Welcome to the Forum!

« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 10:22:44 PM by unbeldi »

Offline MGreenwood

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 09:45:27 AM »
Thanks for the great response! Please let me clarify a couple of things regarding my particular equipment. First, I'm actually using an "F1" handset (I fat fingered the previous post). Also, I'm connecting to a 4228A Network, only because that is the only one I had in my parts box right now, and have been led to believe its equivalent to the 425A. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure which handset mounting I am working with, I believe its the G7, but could b wrong. I've attached a few pics, if you want to take a look and see for yourself.

While both wiring methods work, I can't help but think that the 5 wire configuration is probably the preferred method for this combination of phone hardware and network.

I'll go scourer the forum for some of the other threads regarding the virtues of both.
Mike Greenwood

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 10:17:06 AM »
The Gx number should be stamped on the front of the phone.

You are correct that the BSPs will show 5 conductors from the phone to the 425 or 4228 network/685A subset.

Some of the diagrams on the forum show alternate facts ways of connecting a 202 or 211 to a 425/4228 network using only 4 wires, but one reason for doing so is to avoid having to purchase a new 5-conductor mounting cord and having to move one wire (the black handset wire from BK on the dial).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:21:21 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline MGreenwood

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 10:22:50 AM »
Four versus Five for me is not a problem, I have a 5 conductor cord for the phone (FYI the cords in the pictures are just some test cords and not the actual ones I will be using). Is there an advantage to having (BK) from the handset going to the network versus the 5H dial?
Mike Greenwood

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2017, 10:27:07 AM »
If you are using a 4228, then the black handset wire no longer connects to BK on the dial. Rather, it connects to the terminal which has the wire going to B on the network.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline MGreenwood

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 10:35:04 AM »
And that is where I have it now, but I also have a jumper from terminal B to BK on the 5H dial.
Mike Greenwood

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 10:37:21 AM »
The first diagram shows the correct wiring. Notice that the black handset wire goes to B in the phone, which goes to B on the network.

That diagram shows a G1 handset with 4 conductor cord. Since the F1 handset has only 3 conductors, just connect the red handset wire where the diagram shows both red and white on the same terminal.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 10:41:33 AM »
BK on dial goes to C on network. Do you have a BL terminal in the phone for this?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 10:44:08 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline MGreenwood

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 10:43:39 AM »
Yep! and that is exactly how it is wired now.

My original reason for asking the question of four wires versus five, was to get a better understanding of what the benefits of one versus the other was.
Mike Greenwood

Offline MGreenwood

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 10:58:40 AM »
No, this phone does not have a "BL" terminal, like some do. FYI - The markings on the interior frame of the phone is "IV  37" So I'm thinking its a G4 base.
Mike Greenwood

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2017, 10:59:14 AM »
In a 500-series phone, or equivalent, using a 425/4228 network, the continuity of the line in series with the line switch and the dial pulsing contacts (2 wires)going to the network input (C and RR) is separate from the network output (GN=receiver, B=transmitter, R=common).

In the older induction coil circuits, the transmitter is in series with the line: when the phone is off-hook, one side of the transmitter is connected directly to the line, rather than to the network output. Thus, the same wire can be used in a 211 (or 202) for the black transmitter wire and for BK on the dial.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: 43A/G1 Space Saver wiring question
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2017, 11:05:44 AM »
No, this phone does not have a "BL" terminal, like some do. FYI - The markings on the interior frame of the phone is "IV  37" So I'm thinking its a G4 base.

IV 37= 4th quarter 1937. The model is stamped on the front or back of the rectangular metal housing (not shown in the photo).

You can just connect the black handset wire to B on network, and BK on dial to C on network using whatever spare terminals,or make your own connector using a machine screw and nut.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.