Author Topic: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones  (Read 786 times)

Offline poorfellow

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Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« on: May 22, 2019, 12:52:46 PM »
Hello,

I purchased, programmed and connected a KX-TA824 in my home, and am having a weird issue (that may be anticipated by you all).

Unlike the 616, it looks like the 824 will attempt to ring all extensions simultaneously, and not in a cascade.  That's exactly the behavior I like, but I don't think it's working with the load.

I have 5-6 WECO 500-type sets connected at any time, using Cat 3 IW (runs not exceeding 75').  The more phones that I connect, the quieter the ring becomes until it's almost nonexistent.  Dialing extensions rings fine, since only the individual port is ringing.

Have I hit an expected barrier with the ability of this PBX to ring this type of load?  Is the solution to use extension groups and enable the "hunting" through the groups for the ring?  That'd be disappointing, but not the end of the world.  Once I get everything for my Adit 600 going, and figure out how to integrate it with MGCP on Asterisk (or a PRI -> SIP/FXO on an Adtran TA), I know that it can provide the BellCore standard and ring the hell out of every phone in here.

I appreciate any guidance.

Offline Key2871

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 01:11:35 PM »
It sounds like you have reached the limit. These were made with the intention of providing ring current but perhaps more of an electronic ringer. Those have a lower draw than actual bell ringers. What you could try I'd connecting up several electronic devices, and see if the problem is better.
It's either that or the power unit may be weak over the years, and is in need of repair.
KEN

Offline poorfellow

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2019, 01:15:56 PM »
Hey Ken,

Thank you for replying.

It definitely triggers electronic ringers without issue, even when it can no longer ring the 500s.

I had read in some other threads that the 616 may use a ringing cadence, as opposed to ringing all simultaneously.  Perhaps it's to deal with the SLT load potential.  I also noticed that the loading of the IW reduces the volume of the ring.  When directly connected, a phone will trill a little louder than when connected to the station jack, but it's still clearly reduced volume.

This was a refurb unit, from a Panasonic dealer, so it should be in good working order - I think I just hit a limit on electro-mechanical ringers.

I'm interested to hear what folks are doing that have run into that issue, as far as staggering rings, etc., since I picked this unit up to drive more phones than the POTS line can at REN 5.  But the POTS line will ring-out 5 phones when connected to the IW, while the PBX will not.

Offline Owain

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2019, 03:17:25 PM »
Can you put resistors in the phone bells to reduce the loading?

Offline poorfellow

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2019, 03:53:54 PM »
Can you put resistors in the phone bells to reduce the loading?

I suppose that's possible.  Do you happen to know off-hand what the values would be, and where in the phone (network terminals, etc) it would make sense to put them?

I'm guessing that allows the ringers to ring with less current?

Offline Key2871

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2019, 04:02:17 PM »
If you can go with different cadence I would. It will take some of the load off your power supply, making it hopefully last longer.
KEN

Offline poorfellow

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 04:13:49 PM »
I'll also go ahead and try the cadence.  I'm sure without ringing all 5 simultaneously, it'll be fine.  It's just hard to get used to, but it seems like it's what folks have been doing.

Once the Adit is ready for primetime, I'll be able to melt pairs.

Offline Owain

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 12:59:50 PM »
I suppose that's possible.  Do you happen to know off-hand what the values would be, and where in the phone (network terminals, etc) it would make sense to put them?

Looks like a 500 set ringer has 2 x 1000 ohm coils in series. I think if you remove the red wire from terminal K and insert a 2.2 k ohm resistor (red-red-red-gold)  that should halve the ringer load.


Offline RB

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 03:28:42 PM »
I believe if you have 2 2k ohm coils in series, "2k", and you add 2.2k in series, you get 4.2K ohms.
That would be like addin another phone to the line.
I believe if you wish to reduce the load, you will need to adjust the capacitor in series with the ringer.
Not sure if up, or down tho???

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 04:04:04 PM »
Increasing the resistance reduces the current flow, therefore reducing the load, which is why when converting a GPO telephone from a 1KOhm ringer to 4.3KOhm using a 3.3k resistor changes its' REN from about 4 to about 1... :)

Offline RB

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 04:21:39 PM »
So, that was a practice? to add a resistor in line with the ringer?
OK, I sit corrected ;)
I won't stand for it, but I will sit for it :)

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 04:48:14 PM »
So, that was a practice? to add a resistor in line with the ringer?
OK, I sit corrected ;)
I won't stand for it, but I will sit for it :)

Was and still is (there's still plenty unconverted GPO telephones out there)...

Resistors are like a restriction on a water pipe, it reduces the amount of water getting through (hence why we call it "current", just like the currents of water), otherwise too much gets through and either drains the source too quickly, or overloads the recipient to potential destruction, think of an LED placed on a 12V battery, it burns out very fast, too much current goes through it and it fails, add an appropriate resistor and it'll run from the 12v battery without issue... :)

Offline poorfellow

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2019, 11:05:17 AM »
Great discussion!  Alrighty, I'll give it a shot and report back.

Still trying to get the Adit 600 into production, so I'll be able to test in a few days with a 500 on the Panasonic.

Offline Key2871

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2019, 02:18:01 PM »
Well even I have learned something new... Get back here when you've done your work and let us know.
KEN

Online Stormcrash

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Re: Panasonic KX-TA824 Not Ringing All Phones
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2019, 05:53:09 PM »
If you ever figured out how to do the extension group hunting I'd love to know. I've run into similar REN problems on my KX-TA824 and for now I'm cutting down the number of lines that ring on an incoming CO call, it'll work but it's not ideal as I can no longer answer on any line, only those set to ring.