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Early British No10 Dial

Started by FABphones, August 24, 2019, 06:38:45 PM

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FABphones

I'm really pleased to have found this early British dial.

Initially, looking at the photos I thought it might be a No8. Four terminals with the earlier small dial label centre. Although the terminals were not in a line, which I would expect on a No8. Seller said there was no writing on it, but as not too many of these older dials come up for sale, I bought it.

When it arrived I spotted a small hole to the right of the spring set assembly, so not a No8, but an early No10 with a missing terminal (dial No8 has 4 terminals, dial No10 has 5). A wipe over and around the rim on the reverse side revealed the manufacturer codes: S-29, 235, No10.

Siemens 1929
235 (second variant)
Dial Number 10

Type S (33.3% break)

I have been doing a bit of a swot up on dials in the last few weeks. Not quite ready as yet to strip this 90 year old dial down for cleaning, I do now have an Ultrasonic Bath if needed. The mystery of the moment is why that terminal isn't there.

Meantime, I have a tin containing misc GPO dial parts including screws, and I'm hopeful there is also a suitable terminal in there.

Photos below, photo 4 for comparison from:
https://www.britishtelephones.com/dial1.htm
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Jack Ryan

Nice dial, pity about the missing off normal springs.

Yours is a GPO version but none are common. I would like a W version but I don't think I have ever even seen one.

Here is my Siemens version.

Jack

FABphones

Thanks for adding that photo Jack, it really helps to have a good clear picture when trying to match up a part.
My tin - which I have almost moved on countless times, thinking I'll never need any of it - has quite a few misc dial parts in it, including springs and assemblys. Here's hoping.  :)
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ThePillenwerfer

I bet the springset off any later dial would fit. 

tubaman

#4
Quote from: Jack Ryan on August 24, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Nice dial, pity about the missing off normal springs.

Yours is a GPO version but none are common. I would like a W version but I don't think I have ever even seen one.

Here is my Siemens version.

Jack

@Jack Ryan,
Is this what you mean by a W version?
I got the phone some years ago just for the small centre dial - think I paid £50 for it.
The phone base is marked "MS 1369-1" and "W31" which I believe was the UK Western Electric Factory?
Dial card is original too which is a real bonus.
:)

@FABphones,

You did well there. Any No10 contact set should fit so shouldn't be too impossible to find.
Really nice original finish too - you see so many that are ruined by being polished back to brass, and you just can't replicate that original finish as it was done using some pretty nasty chemicals I believe.
I see you've also got the card retainer ring which is good as they are often missing and very hard to find.
:)

FABphones

#5
Quote from: tubaman on August 26, 2019, 01:11:52 PM
@Jack Ryan,
Is this what you mean by a W version....

Very nice.

Could you add a photo looking down on the Pulse Wheel, you should be able to see a large W on it (same place as you can see the S on ours above), under the shadowed area on your photo.

* screenshot from above website.
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
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tubaman

#6
Now I understand what you mean by the 'W' version - I was thinking manufacturer code (learn something new every day here!)
Afraid mine is just a boring 'A' type.
Yours being a type 'S' makes it even more special.
:)

ThePillenwerfer

Manufacturer code W was Western Electric prior to 1925 but after that signifies Standard Telephones & Cables Ltd - North Woolwich, London.

Jack Ryan

Early on there were several different exchanges in the UK - Automatic Electric (Strowger), Siemens and Western Electric primarily. Each exchange used different dial pulse timing meaning that spares for each type had to be kept. In an effort to standardise, Siemens Brothers developed the No 8 dial which had a changeable pulse cam - an 'A' cam for the ATM (Strowger) exchanges, an 'S' cam for the Siemens exchanges and a 'W' cam for the Western Electric (Rotary) exchanges. It was not possible to use any of the previous dials (No 1, No 3 or No 5) to create all three dial timings.

The 'W' pulse cam was used on the Western Electric Rotary exchange so it is, in effect, a manufacturer's code.

A telephone circuit change to, amongst other things, suppress bell tinkle required a different dial off normal contact configuration resulting in the Dial No 10 as used on the Teles No 150, 121 et al.

As has been noted, Western Electric's non US interests (except in Canada) were sold in 1925 to the ITT group who traded under the Standard Electric name (same font). In the UK, Commonwealth and other countries where the UK had influence, the W manufacturer's code referred to the new company - in the UK, that was STC.

Jack

FABphones

Quote from: Jack Ryan on August 27, 2019, 12:38:05 AM
Early on there were several different exchanges in the UK - Automatic Electric (Strowger), Siemens and Western Electric....

....Each exchange used different dial pulse timing meaning that spares for each type had to be kept....

Do we know what dial pulse timing Relay Automatic Telephone Co Ltd (London) used?
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
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tubaman

#10
Quote from: FABphones on January 27, 2021, 03:44:45 AM
Do we know what dial pulse timing Relay Automatic Telephone Co Ltd (London) used?

Going by the dials on the pair that sold yesterday - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-vintage-metal-rotary-telephone-/284153535171
( dead link 02-13-22 )  - I'd say it was the standard 'A' type.
:)

Did you buy these as you seem very interested in the dials?  ;)

FABphones

Quote from: tubaman on January 27, 2021, 04:50:10 AM
...I'd say it was the standard 'A' type...

Thanks for the reply, agreed. Zooming in via a better device, looks like they are the A version.

Screenshots:
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
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