Author Topic: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird  (Read 299 times)

Offline gands-antiques

  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • My 22
WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« on: August 26, 2019, 12:52:52 PM »
I've got a WE 51AL Candlestick w/2AE dial connected to 554C subset and it's acting weird...

I connect the Red Line Cord to L1 and the Green Line Cord to L2/Y and Everything works (Rec, Trans, Dial)  Except the Ringer doesn't work.


If I connect Red Line Cord to L1 and Green Line Cord to GRND....ONLY the Ringer works but nothing else works.   

I tried removing the only wire connected to the GRND terminal (Black Ringer wire) and connecting it to L1 or L2/Y and the ringer didn't work.

I also tried moving the black ringer wire to all of the other terminals and the ringer still didn't work. 

I'm stumped....

Any help would sure be appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1009
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 03:15:26 PM »
Hi Gary  ....    Your subset was or is, set up for ground ringing.   That signaling method is n longer used on modern telephone lines.    Everything now is bridged ringing.   I can't see all the components in your subset, so I'll explain the easy work around.     Place your line conductors (tip and ring) back on terminals "L-1 and L-2/Y".   Place a jumper from "Ground" to "L-2/Y" and test your talk & dial circuit and ringer.     You should find that everything works as it should and the ringer should ring on incoming calls.     A second method is this;   if there is only a single conductor on the "Ground" terminal (without moving the green line conductor to ground) simply move that single conductor to terminal "L-2/Y".     That will eliminate the need for a jumper between "Ground and L-2/Y".
 Let us know how you make out.

Jeff Lamb
   

Offline gands-antiques

  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • My 22
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 08:20:10 PM »
Jeff,

Thanks for the recommendations...

I tried both methods and the ringer still doesn't ring. 

- When I jump GND to L2/Y it doesn't ring.
- When I move the single conductor on GND to L2/Y it doesn't ring.

The only way to get it to ring is to connect the Red or Green line cord to the GND terminal and then nothing else works.

Thanks,
Gary
 

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1009
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 08:50:45 PM »
Gary  ....   That's odd.   Here's how a ringer is connected to a telephone for bridged ringing.   One conductor from the ringer connects to the L1.     One lead from the condenser (capacitor) connects to L2.      The second and remaining lead from the condenser (capacitor) connects to the other lead from the ringer.    You can make that connection without involving a telephone or subset, and the ringer, if it's working properly, it will ring.    You can make all your connections on a piece of wood using No. 6 sheet metal screws as connection points, and no telephone.     

Isolate the 2 conductors from the ringer, and connect 1 ringer conductor to L1.      Find one conductor from the ringing condenser and connect it to L2/Y.     Find the remaining conductor from the ringing condenser and connect it to a spare or unused terminal point on the terminal board, then connect the remaining conductor from the ringer to that same terminal.     If the ringer, or the ringing condenser aren't faulty, your telephone should work correctly.

Jeff

Offline gands-antiques

  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • My 22
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 11:05:46 PM »
Jeff,

I think the ringer is good because it rings perfectly when either of the line cord conductors are connected to the Ground terminal where the single black ringer wire is connected.

I did have to put a bias spring and thread on it but it is adjusted properly.

I will check the wiring and  condenser connections you described tomorrow and let you know how it goes. 


Thanks a lot,
Gary

Offline gands-antiques

  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • My 22
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2019, 02:32:51 PM »
Hello Jeff,

I don't know anything about these old condensers and which terminals / conductors are for the ringer.  I've taken pictures of both ends of the condenser and if you could tell me what I'm looking for and which wires should go where I'd appreciate it.

Also, when I connect the mounting cords...yellow to L2/Y, green to GN and Red to R, i get no ring but all of the other functions work properly.

* I'm wondering if the problem might be with with the candlestick wiring.  I haven't disassembled it and checked it out.


Gary

Offline HowardPgh

  • **
  • Posts: 514
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 02:49:38 PM »
It appears the 554c subset is wired for some special purpose and has 2 condensers.  Since you have a sidetone telephone, try rewiring the subset like a 334 subset which has one condenser.  https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search/basic-search?q=334a+subset.  I wouldn't do anything to the phone itself as it is working. It's kind of the matter of eliminating one of the condensers in your subset.  Look up 554c subset in TCI and you will see it is for a different type of phone.
Howard


Offline gands-antiques

  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • My 22
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2019, 03:31:33 PM »
I tried wiring it as a 334 , swapping parts out with a 534A and I still couldn't get it working.  So, after messing with it for 2-3 weeks, I punted and sent it to a phone expert friend of mine to see what he could do with it. 

Thanks to Howard & Jeff for your help with this weird subset.

Thanks,
Gary

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1009
Re: WE 51AL w/2AE Dial Connected to 554C Subset Acting Weird
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2019, 04:51:08 PM »
Gary   .....  That's good, and hopefully he'll figure out the circuit wiring fairly quickly.   I apologize as well, for missing your question regarding the condenser.   I've had family from out west visiting for a week and trying to re-organize my work shop at the same time.      Western traditionally paired two condensers in one container by color coding the conductors so that technicians in all Bell System Telco's, could quickly identify the ringer condenser from the condenser for the talk circuit.     But I see from the picture of your condenser, conductor color is going to be a bit of a challenge.  I have two meters that will measure capacitance, so I can "cheat" in situations where the conductor color is hard to determine, and just measure the capacitance until I get the correct pair for the ringer and talk circuits.
Keep us posted on how thinks turn out.

Jeff