Author Topic: Not a Continental?  (Read 380 times)

Offline Pourme

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Not a Continental?
« on: October 08, 2019, 05:47:56 AM »
~

As I read this listing https://tinyurl.com/yynyoay9 . The seller kept refering to this phone as a "Continental". I am very fond of Continentals and collect all I can afford. I am under the impression that these painted phones were painted by WE prior to the reconditioning and marketing of the continentals in the 50's. In order to be considered a Continental there must be parts from that era.  None were made without the clear (5j?) dial.

This isn't a continental.

Thoughts?
Benny

The Internet is a telephone system that's gotten uppity

Offline FABphones

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2019, 10:03:29 AM »
I have read that under some circumstances they did have a metal finger wheel. Unfortunately I cannot find where I read it.

But I did find this thread discussing them:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=3179.0

I would ask the seller for dates, if they are willing to take a look inside.  :)

Personally, I look for the clear versions (am on the lookout for two Imperials and often see those with metal finger wheels too).
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'
...and a Duck!
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I don't collect Red Phones  ...they are starting to collect me
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Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2019, 05:34:36 PM »
I think the early (pre war) D1 continentals had metal fingerwheels.
The plastic FW continentals didn't come around until they started  re purposing  them as designer sets ( around the time of the Imperials).

This is my understanding. It is not based on any documentation, only hearsay.
Jim

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:54:28 PM by Jim Stettler »
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Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2019, 06:00:28 PM »
Per poplar1
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11422.msg125730#msg125730
It looks like the early color D1's had matching fingerwheels.
The Continentals had clear fiingerwheels (1955-56)

Jim


Excerpts {from oval base section}


Dial for color sets:
  4H with matching case and finger wheel (1930- c.1937)
  (4HB-7 for example had statuary bronze finger wheel and statuary bronze case)
  4J (1937) II 37
  On 4J-type dials "the finger wheel, finger stop and card holder are of stainless steel...and the dial casing is white enameled."
  (BSP Section C34.101, Issue 3, 3-15-37. Station dials, 2,4 and 5 Types, Description and Use. "Reissued to include the 4J type and 5 type dials." >NOTE: The 5-type dials discussed are the 5E and 5H-types. The 5J dial was apparently not yet manufactured.)

  Note: the 4J dial was used only on certain color sets; metallic colors continued to use 4H dials with matching finger wheels.
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 07:33:47 PM »
Some green Continentals have brushed aluminum (unpainted) fingerwheels + black neoprene cords.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline andre_janew

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2019, 07:20:33 PM »
This isn't a Continental.  It is the wrong color for a Continental.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2019, 11:39:46 PM »
yeh, the continentals were all made in brass or chrome.... the 202's were available in some colors other than black.... right?
John

Offline FABphones

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2019, 04:24:23 AM »
yeh, the continentals were all made in brass or chrome.... the 202's were available in some colors other than black.... right?

As I understand it:

Imperials were silver/gold
Continentals were the colours


*Edited to add link to detailed thread by poplar1:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10487.msg111397#msg111397



« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 07:40:21 AM by FABphones »
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'
...and a Duck!
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I don't collect Red Phones  ...they are starting to collect me
----------------
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2019, 06:04:34 PM »
As I understand it:

Imperials were silver/gold
Continentals were the colours




*Edited to add link to detailed thread by poplar1:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=10487.msg111397#msg11139


This is true of the recycled D1 sets of the 1950's. The names came from the  marketing department.
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There  were earlier  color D1's  that were considered color telephones.
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There were also spray-can gold (looking) D1 sets with E handsets. I have seen enough of these to assume  they were "official". They may of been created by the Telephone pioneers or the WE shops.
poplar1 may know the background of these,
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Offline oldguy

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2019, 11:41:07 PM »
I agree with FABphones. Continentals are painted. I have only seen gold Imperials & own a few. I’ve heard of chrome Imperials but never seen one. I’m pretty sure that’s the wrong subset.
Gary

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2019, 07:57:29 AM »
Continentals and Imperials would not have an AE dial! Subset is a newer from the 60s. This is a home brew
Kidphone

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2019, 09:06:15 PM »
I think I know what a coloured D Handset mounting, a Continental and an Imperial is but there is so much conflicting information about that I am never sure.

Part of the problem is how to define the sets. I would use what was officially sanctioned by Bell - there are always renegades that modify things for their area but without official documentation it is impossible to tell it you have a local Bell variation or some individual's imaginative and artistic expression.

Conversations about coloured Handset Mountings, particularly the Continental and the Imperial often cancel themselves out through contradiction. In a conversation or a debate, this will often happen but somewhere we need a summary of what is known.

It is said that the Imperial commemorates the invention (granting of the first patent) of the telephone. That would make a release date of 1951 and a gold (75 years) finish. Others talk of a "silver" plated Imperial that yet others call a Continental. An Imperial can't really commemorate 75 years of the telephone and be silver.

I hope the CRPW (the wiki) can summarise what is known with the appropriate references.

Just my thoughts as someone who is interested but has too many other research projects happening to follow it up.

Regards
Jack


Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2019, 07:53:12 AM »
I think I know what a coloured D Handset mounting, a Continental and an Imperial is but there is so much conflicting information about that I am never sure.

Part of the problem is how to define the sets. I would use what was officially sanctioned by Bell - there are always renegades that modify things for their area but without official documentation it is impossible to tell it you have a local Bell variation or some individual's imaginative and artistic expression.

Conversations about coloured Handset Mountings, particularly the Continental and the Imperial often cancel themselves out through contradiction. In a conversation or a debate, this will often happen but somewhere we need a summary of what is known.

It is said that the Imperial commemorates the invention (granting of the first patent) of the telephone. That would make a release date of 1951 and a gold (75 years) finish. Others talk of a "silver" plated Imperial that yet others call a Continental. An Imperial can't really commemorate 75 years of the telephone and be silver.

I hope the CRPW (the wiki) can summarise what is known with the appropriate references.

Just my thoughts as someone who is interested but has too many other research projects happening to follow it up.

Regards
Jack
What is the CRPW the wiki?   

"I hope the CRPW (the wiki) can summarise what is known with the appropriate references"
Kidphone

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2019, 10:09:43 AM »
What is the CRPW the wiki?   

"I hope the CRPW (the wiki) can summarise what is known with the appropriate references"

It is a suggestion.

Once a question is answered, I think the results should be summarised with references so that it is clear what the answer is.

At the moment, there are several pages of sometimes conflicting and off topic posts and it is not clear what the answer is - if one was identified.

A suggestion for how to make best use of answers uncovered.

Regards
Jack

Offline poplar1

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Re: Not a Continental?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2019, 10:41:13 AM »
Some of this has been documented in previous posts. Of 100+ Continentals and Imperials observed, all have 1955 or early 1956 dates. They could be ordered with F1 or F4 handsets depending on the zoning requirements. All had 4-conductor mounting cords for use with anti-sidetone subsets (634A, 634BA, 684A, 684BA, 495BP)--not the network subsets (685A), which required a 5-conductor mounting cord. The handsets were mostly painted over black Bakelite (grooved). Some ivory Continentals and some Imperials had ivory Tenite handsets. All these sets were assembled in the WE repair shops at the Distributing Houses -- not the WE factories.

Manufacture of color WE phones was discontinued from 1942 to 1949. By 1941, color 202s were available by special order only, until the Imperials/Continentals appeared. The special order 202s had painted grooveless (brown Bakelite) handsets.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.