Author Topic: Now the Story Can be Told - 1949 WECo 500 Set  (Read 238728 times)

Offline AtomicEraTom

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2010, 03:56:59 AM »
I am just so very excited for you!!!  Seeing all the pics, I think I felt as excited as you have.  It's just been so great to read all of this!
I am a lineman for the county and I drive the main roads. Searchin' in the sun for another overload.  I hear you singin' in the wires, I can hear you through the whine, and the Witchita Lineman is still on the line.

Offline Drew

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #106 on: March 25, 2010, 08:39:57 AM »
Surely this is among the most important post on 500 development this forum has seen.  This link Jim S. provided 'Bell Labs Notes on Conference', May 1949 is very informative - http://www.telephonecollectors.org/DocumentLibrary/WesternElectric/500-Set-Design-1949.pdf   On page 108, the mention of "throwing Test models to the floor" is a bit painful to read but this is what is done in the development process.  It might explain the rough shape of your find D/P.....a victim of Bell Labs abuse !

Great photos you've provided...a whole new look at the very first 500's,  thank you.

Drew
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 08:44:09 AM by Drew »

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #107 on: March 25, 2010, 09:43:05 AM »
I had a though about the feet, and wondered what the Galion feet looked like. This morning I turned over my Galion, and much to my surprise they are the same shape as the 500. Rounded on the inside, and not flat like the 302's. I haven't pull one yet, but I sure hope it's an internal match.
I have to take my dog to the vets today, so will be tied up until later.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline dencins

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #108 on: March 25, 2010, 10:39:25 AM »
I had a though about the feet, and wondered what the Galion feet looked like. This morning I turned over my Galion, and much to my surprise they are the same shape as the 500. Rounded on the inside, and not flat like the 302's. I haven't pull one yet, but I sure hope it's an internal match.
I have to take my dog to the vets today, so will be tied up until later.
D/P

I just saw another post about screw on feet on a 500.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2407.0

It would be good to check them against these.  Drew says his are 1953 and I would be curious if they have the triangle depression.

I think Galions could be modified to fit.  They have On the Galions I have seen the screw goes from the outside to the inside and would need a nut on the inside to hold it.  I will take some pictures tonight of the various footpad plates to compare.

Dennis

Offline wecoguy

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #109 on: March 25, 2010, 11:19:25 AM »
Dan --  You have found a treasure!  It would appear to be the base and dial from one of the telephones used in 1949 field trials of the 500 set conducted by WECo and a few of the Operating Telephone Companies.  A probable reason for the wording on the base is that if the set failed for any reason during the trial, Bell Labs engineers wanted to know why.  They did not want anyone in the field trying to "trouble shoot" the failure.

The lettering on the dial at the "0" position IS indicative of trial sets as pictures from Paul Fassbender show.  Later, the "Z"  was dropped and the word "operator" was moved to a semicircle under the "0".  This arrangement was used briefly on production sets until sometime between June and December of 1950 when "operator" was moved the the gentle arc outside the "0" where it remained for the rest of the production life of the 500 set.

The shape of the plunger levers is certainly early as horizontal ones never made it into production.

As for the box to the left of the dial.  That is a 311A equalizer.  the 425 network was optimized for long loop performance to match the needs of the outside plant as it spread to suburbia and rural locations.  The 311A functioned to attenuate the louder signals when the set was located near a Central Office or on a PBX extension.  Improvements to the 425 network resulted in the production of the 425B which eliminated the need for the 311A equalizer.

For anyone reading this who is a member of Telephone Collectors International (TCI). Paul and I collaborated on a series of articles relating to the development of the 500 set.  These were published in the TCI newsletter beginning in January 2009 and concluded in August 2009.

Regrettably, your recent purchase is missing the housing and handset.  Although that detracts somewhat from having a complete set, the value and extreme rarity of what you have is GREAT.  The fact that the early dial number ring as used in the field trials is present is FANTASTIC.  In my mind, you got a bargain at $224!

Offline dencins

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #110 on: March 25, 2010, 01:00:03 PM »
I had a though about the feet, and wondered what the Galion feet looked like. This morning I turned over my Galion, and much to my surprise they are the same shape as the 500. Rounded on the inside, and not flat like the 302's. I haven't pull one yet, but I sure hope it's an internal match.
I have to take my dog to the vets today, so will be tied up until later.
D/P

I just saw another post about screw on feet on a 500.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2407.0

It would be good to check them against these.  Drew says his are 1953 and I would be curious if they have the triangle depression.

I think Galions could be modified to fit.  They have On the Galions I have seen the screw goes from the outside to the inside and would need a nut on the inside to hold it.  I will take some pictures tonight of the various footpad plates to compare.

Dennis

I looked at pictures of the telephone mentioned by Drew.  It has 500 riveted footpads that someone used a screw and nut to put on.  You can see the dimples on the footpad plate.  Definitely not the same as D/P.

D/P - one thing you can check is if the circular recess on the Galion footpad will clear the triangular bump on your 500 base plate.  For now do not worry about the dimples.

If that one clears then the one I have will clear the bump.  Using only leather (no cushion) the thickness of the footpad will be about the same size and shape as a 500 rivet-on type with a cushion which should match what you have.

Dennis

Offline dencins

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #111 on: March 25, 2010, 01:20:29 PM »
I had a though about the feet, and wondered what the Galion feet looked like. This morning I turned over my Galion, and much to my surprise they are the same shape as the 500. Rounded on the inside, and not flat like the 302's. I haven't pull one yet, but I sure hope it's an internal match.
I have to take my dog to the vets today, so will be tied up until later.
D/P

I just saw another post about screw on feet on a 500.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2407.0

It would be good to check them against these.  Drew says his are 1953 and I would be curious if they have the triangle depression.

I think Galions could be modified to fit.  They have On the Galions I have seen the screw goes from the outside to the inside and would need a nut on the inside to hold it.  I will take some pictures tonight of the various footpad plates to compare.

Dennis

I looked at pictures of the telephone mentioned by Drew.  It has 500 riveted footpads that someone used a screw and nut to put on.  You can see the dimples on the footpad plate.  Definitely not the same as D/P.

D/P - one thing you can check is if the circular recess on the Galion footpad will clear the triangular bump on your 500 base plate.  For now do not worry about the dimples.

If that one clears then the one I have will clear the bump.  Using only leather (no cushion) the thickness of the footpad will be about the same size and shape as a 500 rivet-on type with a cushion which should match what you have.

Dennis
I think I may have a lead on an alternate footpad.  I found a North Electric TP-6-A (Army Signal Corp) and the footpad looks like the one I have.  It is shaped like a 500 rivet-on but it must be screwed on from the inside out.  This is different from the Galion which screws on from the outside in and you can see the screw head on the outside.  You can see one on ebay number 370351955263.  If this works maybe Steve Hiltz would have some available.

Dennis

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #112 on: March 25, 2010, 01:44:05 PM »
Dennis;
Thanks for all your help, nothing is more encouraging than people in know, offering as freely as everyone has to help me solve this mystery, and the reward being we can all 5reflect and enjoy that one more piece of a very big puzzle is in place. I want to thank you all sincerely for your advice, information, and offers, none will be forgotten thanks every body.

I'm currently in contact with Paul, sending photos and answering his questions. He has promised to comment to the forum, as soon as all the facts are known. He is busy this week with previous commitments but says he should be able to give a good assessment by the beginning of the week, or maybe a little sooner.

wecoguy;
I had kind of thought that it was a 48 field Test, but nothing would make me happier than to confirm you are correct and that it falls intro the 1949 year, which makes it my Birth Year. I will be holding my breath until That definitive answer is posted.

I hope to be able to say I own a 1949 W.E. model 500, Field Test or Production is not of major concern. Either from 1949, was a goal I felt I would not achieve.

I hope later today to be able to examine the ringer.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #113 on: March 25, 2010, 01:52:31 PM »
Dennis;
I think you may have found something. The base of that Galion even looks different than the two I have.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #114 on: March 25, 2010, 02:27:17 PM »
I'm getting ready to remove the ringer for photos for Jorge and Paul. Before I disconnected everything, I attached a pigtail line cord, and plugged it in and dial my home phone number.
I bet you want to know what happened don't you.


IT'S ALIVE, with that sweet sounding and familar 500 ring....These phones seem bullet proof.....

Photos of the ringer out of the chassis to follow shortly.

 D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline bwanna

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #115 on: March 25, 2010, 07:40:14 PM »
i just read this exciting saga from beginning to end....again! i get goosebumps every time. :) i certainly appreciate the education  on early 500 sets.

it is unfortunate that the fingewheel is broken, but i would not replace it. only if you could find the exact same one. normally i would not oppose making a whole phone out of various parts. this is the one instance when i do. it would be ok to fabricate the 2 missing feet, until the right ones could be found. i don't think i would add any handset either. unless you knew for sure exactly which handset (&components) would have been on it.

in my opinion this is a historical artifact that should not be altered.  i like the the idea of covering with a clear chassis for display purposes. i would not consider this an alteration, merely a protective cover.

on second thought about the fingerwheel. would it be possible to manufacture just the missing portion, in order to make the original whole again?

d/p, i am just so happy for you! and thankful that you were able to bring such an important piece of history to our little world.

i think we should revisit the idea of our forum BBQ. d/p & his magnificent find can be the guests of honor ;)

keep the photos & information coming!
donna

Offline Dan

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #116 on: March 25, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c&feature=related


YES !! DAN/P YES! Was there any doubt it wouldn't ring?
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #117 on: March 25, 2010, 08:56:12 PM »
Thank you Donna, I appreciate that.
Dan; For a second, I thought someone had video recorded me in my shop.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #118 on: March 25, 2010, 09:06:22 PM »
Here are some shots of the ringer removed from the chassis.
Notice in the third photo the two taped screw hole, This must have been for an alternate use of the ringer.


I must ask exactly what does everyone consider acceptable as far as cleaning things up is concerned. So far I've used Q-Tips, and a very mild cleaner on the metal parts, and on the plastic parts, warm soapy water to remove the grime. What would be considered a no-no ?

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #119 on: March 25, 2010, 09:14:03 PM »
Paul has requested that I remove the tape residue from the bottom so as to see if any other markings are present. One problem. The tape was Duct tape, and the glue has tried very hard. Does anyone know of a sure fire, and mild way to remove the dried tape residue, without using a harsh cleaner of solvent, which may damage the black finish, or damage any markings, as some of the green marking is covered by the residue. Also the word LOUD is directly above the arrow pointing, and is under the tape residue.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.