Author Topic: Now the Story Can be Told - 1949 WECo 500 Set  (Read 238809 times)

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #480 on: April 04, 2010, 12:31:50 AM »
I lifted the line switch, and the phone kept ringing, I suspected I needed a handset in line, at least I hoped that as the case, Thanks, my heart is beating again.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline McHeath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3350
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #481 on: April 04, 2010, 01:53:33 AM »
Wow, wonders never cease in this thread, now I've seen my first component of a 1949 model 500, Paul's dial. 

So D/P are you saying that you have not yet been able to get the phone to work properly?  Did you say that the seller said that there were green and red wires attached on a line cord still when he got it? 

Fingers are crossed that this phone will work!

Offline Phonesrfun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4867
  • "Number Please"
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #482 on: April 04, 2010, 01:43:32 PM »
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, as this thread has gone by so fast with so many things to digest.

Here is a link to the TCI website sample newsletters.   This is the January, 2009 issue of Singing Wires and an article by Russ Cowell and Paul Fassbender.

http://www.telephonecollectors.org/singwire/samples/0901sw.pdf

The reason for TCI posting sample Singing Wires newsletters is so that people can see the level of information that is available to subscribers of the newsletters.  So, since I am taking some liberty to posting a link to the site, I might as well put in a plug for the excellent information that is in these monthly newsletters, and recommend everyone subscribe.

Now, back to the topic at hand.  

Paul, you co-authored the article so correct me if I am going astray.  Picture #1 is apparently the trial version as stated in the article.  I read that article last year and what I am noticing for the first time is that photo #1 also has what appears to be a thicker dial finger wheel!  (Like Dan's)!  

There are so many things about this phone that are interesting, and this is one of them.  WE had black finger wheels for years.  I am wondering why they would have put a plastic or bakelite finger wheel out there on a trial, unless maybe that element was one of the trial things they were testing and then later decided to scrap and stay with the tried and true?

When Dan originally posted his picture and I saw the broken finger wheel, my first thought was that it was some kind of home-made replacement.  Looks to me now that this is yet another element of the real McCoy here, and another indication of the uniqueness of Dan's treasure.

Comments please

« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 01:45:56 PM by Phonesrfun »
-Bill G

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #483 on: April 04, 2010, 02:59:08 PM »
I have understood that 180,000 trial sets were manufactured in 1949, yet in the last paragraph of page 1 and the first paragraph of page 11, It clearly states that because of complications at the Indianapolis plant, concerning start up issues, a delay was caused and production in 1950 was to be 180,000, but only half that made it into actual production. I'm wondering now, if the 1950 figures, were actually the first.  If they couldn't make 1950 quota, what makes anyone think they made any of the 1949 quota. My logic tells me back to square one, NO 1949 Production 500 sets were ever produced.
Paul has a 1949 dial, suppliers of parts to Indianapolis they likely found there way into early 1950 sets. It makes sense to me if there were only 90,000 1950 sets made and they show up regularly, if 180,000 1949 sets were allegedly made, WHERE ARE THEY. We can finds some of 90,000 sets, but none of 180,00 sets.
I've always said the simplest answer is USUALLY the correct answer. To explain why no 1949 sets can be found, would be much harder to answer than to say, they never made any.

JMHO

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #484 on: April 04, 2010, 03:09:32 PM »
One other portion of the article as stated by Donald Genaro was the fact that early field sets did not have dots, so I think that takes my set out of the original 50, and into the second run. It still has the first run 'Z', but also the later added dots.
My guess now is the 125 on the bottom is number 125, not one of the original 50.

JMHO
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #485 on: April 04, 2010, 03:24:56 PM »
Wow, wonders never cease in this thread, now I've seen my first component of a 1949 model 500, Paul's dial. 

So D/P are you saying that you have not yet been able to get the phone to work properly?  Did you say that the seller said that there were green and red wires attached on a line cord still when he got it? 

Fingers are crossed that this phone will work!
McHeath;
And wouldn't you know it,, it's my birth month.
No the phone works in all phases tried so far. I had it hooked up to the line to check the ringer again, and when I let the line switch up, it continued to ring, that is why I asked for a clarification. I suspected I needed a handset.
I really will not make, or take a call until the phone is completely finished, I plan to dial  and make my cell phone ring, but no conversation will take place.  I then hope  to place a call to the person selected to receive the first call, if they agree.
When i received the phone, if you look at my original photos you can see line, and handset wires were hastily cut at the spade connectors.

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3088
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #486 on: April 04, 2010, 03:30:26 PM »
I have understood that 180,000 trial sets were manufactured in 1949, yet in the last paragraph of page 1 and the first paragraph of page 11, It clearly states that because of complications at the Indianapolis plant, concerning start up issues, a delay was caused and production in 1950 was to be 180,000, but only half that made it into actual production. I'm wondering now, if the 1950 figures, were actually the first.  If they couldn't make 1950 quota, what makes anyone think they made any of the 1949 quota. My logic tells me back to square one, NO 1949 Production 500 sets were ever produced.
Paul has a 1949 dial, suppliers of parts to Indianapolis they likely found there way into early 1950 sets. It makes sense to me if there were only 90,000 1950 sets made and they show up regularly, if 180,000 1949 sets were allegedly made, WHERE ARE THEY. We can finds some of 90,000 sets, but none of 180,00 sets.
I've always said the simplest answer is USUALLY the correct answer. To explain why no 1949 sets can be found, would be much harder to answer than to say, they never made any.

JMHO

D/P

The 180,000 were to be production sets.
They made 50 field trial sets in 1948, and in 1949 they had 2,000 field trial sets. I think they used the '48 field trial sets in the '49 field trials. So there were either 2,000 or 2,050 field trial sets total.

 The delay of the 1950 sets were due to delays in getting the Indy plant up and running. The field trial sets were made in NJ (I think).


Production of the 1949 sets started in Nov or dec. of 49. It was a new start up line at the end of the year. These were made on an exsisting line, and not at Indy.
 Assume some sets were made,  Unless one of these sets were still in service (from the original install) they probably went back to the plant for upgraded rebuilds.  Only a small percentage of phones escaped being rebuilt.

When service was cancelled, they usually disconnected the phone and sent it in, they installed a new phone for the next subscriber. This was very common in the early days of 500 sets. Bell Probably did this to get the phones for rebuild to later standards on 500 sets.

I also read somewhere that total production of 500 sets by the end of 1950 was about 100,000.  Accepting 90,000 as 1950's, 2,000 as field trial sets, that leaves about 8,000 that may of been produced in Dec 1949.

Considering that most phone collectors ignored 500 sets for years (black 500 in particular). Some 1949 sets can possibly  be sitting in boxes in the back room of an old telephone collector .

 I suspect there are quite a few old 500's sitting around as "junk"  in club members sheds and basements. 500 set collecting (by date) is a relativly new aspect of the hobby.  Newer collectors are the ones that are really looking for the early 500's.  Old collectors liked wood phones, candlesticks and early desk stuff. They would buy cheap 500's but never paid any attention to them (I speak from experience).

If you want to find a 1949 production set , it helps to beleive they exsist. A good place to look is in the box of dusty old 500's that is shoved under the table at a phone show.
JMO,
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #487 on: April 04, 2010, 04:05:53 PM »
I can see it now, I walk into a phone show, look under a bench, and pull out a 1949 set, look at it, and proclaim; "They do exist", then proceed to faint.

Jim;
just playing devils advocate here. Over the years it has always been told to me, that when trying to figure something out, The simplest solution is USUALLY the correct one.    OJ did it.
Now my thoughts go to 49/500's, It took about 5 paragraphs to justify why 49/500 might exist. The I say, "they don't". Then is my training kicks in. Just having fun !!
We even have a reported 49/500 and we can't get a photo of it. I want more than anyone top find a 49/500, hopefully someday I might, but that would really be pushing my luck to the ultimate limit.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #488 on: April 04, 2010, 04:19:03 PM »
Paul;
If Donald Genaro is still with us, would you kindly email him a copy of the following photo and ask his opinion.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #489 on: April 04, 2010, 04:23:57 PM »
My Goodness, I just Googled Donald Genaro, it shows age 79, living in San Marcos, that's just 40, miles from me, is He one and the same. I'll drive the phone there Tomorrow if it's acceptable to Don.
It also said he succeeded Henry Dreyfus after Henry's death.
D/P
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 04:26:06 PM by Dan/Panther »

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline AtomicEraTom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1322
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #490 on: April 04, 2010, 04:34:41 PM »
Someone's been watching the M&M's Christmas Commercial!


I can see it now, I walk into a phone show, look under a bench, and pull out a 1949 set, look at it, and proclaim; "They do exist", then proceed to faint.
I am a lineman for the county and I drive the main roads. Searchin' in the sun for another overload.  I hear you singin' in the wires, I can hear you through the whine, and the Witchita Lineman is still on the line.

Offline Phonesrfun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4867
  • "Number Please"
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #491 on: April 04, 2010, 04:37:36 PM »
My Goodness, I just Googled Donald Genaro, it shows age 79, living in San Marcos, that's just 40, miles from me, is He one and the same. I'll drive the phone there Tomorrow if it's acceptable to Don.
It also said he succeeded Henry Dreyfus after Henry's death.
D/P


Dan:

That would be an absolute coup if you could accomplish that!

My word, what a stroke of genius that would be.  Maybe he has a box of ten others in his basement.
Keep us posted.
-Bill G

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #492 on: April 04, 2010, 04:46:21 PM »
Someone's been watching the M&M's Christmas Commercial!


I can see it now, I walk into a phone show, look under a bench, and pull out a 1949 set, look at it, and proclaim; "They do exist", then proceed to faint.

What, Who me, what are talking about ???? :o :o :o :o :o
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline rp2813

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • 10/50
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #493 on: April 04, 2010, 04:47:28 PM »
This story keeps getting better and better all the time. 

You go D/P!
Ralph

Offline Dennis Markham

  • VintageRotaryPhones.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5583
    • VintageRotaryPhones.com
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #494 on: April 04, 2010, 04:52:24 PM »
If you can meet him Dan, bring a camera.  You can be the first in the field correspondent for Class Rotary Phones.  Reporting live.............You Were There!