Author Topic: Now the Story Can be Told - 1949 WECo 500 Set  (Read 238778 times)

Offline bingster

  • Contest Director
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2948
    • OTRplus Classic Radio
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #540 on: April 06, 2010, 01:43:01 PM »
Personally, I'd leave any markings intact.  You know they weren't there originally, so there's no point making them appear original in every detail.  Besides, removing the markings from a shell eliminates that shell's own history. 
= DARRIN =



Offline Phonesrfun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4867
  • "Number Please"
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #541 on: April 06, 2010, 02:10:18 PM »
I was thinking last night as I was talking to Jim Stettler on the phone about this thread that once you get a cover for the phone, it will then look like most any other black 500, which might just wind up being kind of a let-down.

Then I got to thinking.  Even though the insides of your phone literally shout "Hey, look at me, I AM A TRIAL PROTOTYPE!", it would still only be us, the collector comminity that would know the difference.  To most people, it would look like any other phone with the cover removed.

So, either way, to the untrainied eye, this is going to wind up looking like "any old black 500"

My thinking is that if you get a cover, from, say a 1950 or 1951 phone, complete with handset and cords, it will be as original as you can make it.  Even with the cover on, the dial, itself, tells the collector what a prize it is.  Then,if you take the cover off, it really reveals the whole story, with the trial dial; the trial ringer, and the slightly different unmarked trial version of the 425A network.

Kind of like the waiter in the fine restauant that "presents" the dinner to the diner, by lifting the cover off the food.  Kind of a "Ta-Daaaa" moment.

Oh do I get carried away sometimes.
-Bill G

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #542 on: April 06, 2010, 02:11:13 PM »
Bingster;
you bring up a valid point. I'm going on the assumption, that I will NEVER run across any original parts for this phone, when in fact someday I might. At that point replacing them would leave the orphaned shell, handset etc., without an identity. Maybe I could find some form of fingerpaint, or tempra paint in black to temporarily hide the original figures.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3088
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #543 on: April 06, 2010, 02:17:09 PM »
Bingster;
you bring up a valid point. I'm going on the assumption, that I will NEVER run across any original parts for this phone, when in fact someday I might. At that point replacing them would leave the orphaned shell, handset etc., without an identity. Maybe I could find some form of fingerpaint, or tempra paint in black to temporarily hide the original figures.
D/P
Blacking it out with tempra would accomplish the purpose and would be reversabile.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #544 on: April 06, 2010, 02:22:42 PM »
Bill;
Even with  the cover removed, all but a few realized what it was. 130 people looked at it, only 2 bid.
So me thinks, it will have to be clearly promoted wherever it is, or like you say, it will be just another clean looking 500 with an odd dial.
I had a similar conversation with Paul the other night, and even though we don't like to admit it, 99.9999% of the people really don't have an interest in our phones, and wouldn't know it if it fell on their head.
I related to Paul, that me and my Ex wife bred Shelties, and have a bloodline that goes way back to the start of the breed over 100 years ago. At the time, I could tell you the lineage of all of my dogs, and point out, 'OH That's down from So and So", The usual comment was 'WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT", most didn't care. Such is the nature of the beast we call 'collecting'. No better example of that than this phone. "One mans trash, Really was another mans TREASURE".
D/P
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 02:25:02 PM by Dan/Panther »

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Phonesrfun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4867
  • "Number Please"
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #545 on: April 06, 2010, 02:24:36 PM »
D/P:

Well put.
-Bill G

Offline AtomicEraTom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1322
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #546 on: April 06, 2010, 02:36:52 PM »
My dad and I complain about this all the time.  It's terrible when you enjoy something so much and nobody in your life enjoys it.  I'm glad you guys are here otherwise I'd not have nearly as much fun with phone collecting.

Bill;
Even with  the cover removed, all but a few realized what it was. 130 people looked at it, only 2 bid.
So me thinks, it will have to be clearly promoted wherever it is, or like you say, it will be just another clean looking 500 with an odd dial.
I had a similar conversation with Paul the other night, and even though we don't like to admit it, 99.9999% of the people really don't have an interest in our phones, and wouldn't know it if it fell on their head.
I related to Paul, that me and my Ex wife bred Shelties, and have a bloodline that goes way back to the start of the breed over 100 years ago. At the time, I could tell you the lineage of all of my dogs, and point out, 'OH That's down from So and So", The usual comment was 'WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT", most didn't care. Such is the nature of the beast we call 'collecting'. No better example of that than this phone. "One mans trash, Really was another mans TREASURE".
D/P

I am a lineman for the county and I drive the main roads. Searchin' in the sun for another overload.  I hear you singin' in the wires, I can hear you through the whine, and the Witchita Lineman is still on the line.

Offline rp2813

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • 10/50
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #547 on: April 06, 2010, 02:53:04 PM »
Tom, you said a mouthful.  I connected with a local guy from another collector/hobby website and it's been great to share collecting experiences with him as well as work on stuff together.  That's how I got my kick-ass 1985 Thermador dishwasher secured and installed, and I'm now working on him to get a land line installed so I can turn him on to a 500 and he can be a part of the rotary phone community.

D/P, what if you just used something like a Post-It to cover the dates on the shell and, if possible, the handset?  You could use black felt pen on the paper and then just stick it over the offending date.  I definitely think the dates need to stay on the parts in case you end up changing them out later.

It's absolutely true what has been said about people just seeing an old black phone, and not the Mother Of All 500's, but let's say you took it to a phone show.  If you displayed it under glass and with cover propped up or removed to expose the trial components, you'd draw a crowd, and you wouldn't have to open up the handset in a way that would show the dates anyway.  My suspicion would be that the handset elements on the trial set would have looked more or less the same as on production models, although we may never know for sure.
Ralph

Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3088
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #548 on: April 06, 2010, 11:35:01 PM »
 A few assorted replies from early in this thread.
The dial "aiming" dots , came from the Life magazine Article 12-12-49.
http://books.google.com/books?id=VUEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA67&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

D/P I am think you should maybe go clear on the plungers. This is because the clear plunger ad also shows a base that appears to be the same features as you base. Just a thought.

Regarding covering the date stamps. Someone might try cover an early (non-readable) date stamp with black sharpie and see how it looks, You can remove sharpie by writing over it with a dry erase marker and then wiping it off.
Hopefully this doesn't remove the date stamps.

I am still pondering Paul's points.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline McHeath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3350
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #549 on: April 07, 2010, 12:44:31 AM »
A couple of things from the article in Life. 

First they note that the payphones of the time already had the numbers outside the dial, is that correct?  Anyone got a picture?

Also I notice that what we call "candlesticks" they call "uprights".  Is that the term used by contemporaries to describe those phones?  If so then why did we start calling them candlesticks?

Looks like they have a production 49' or early 50' model in the picture.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #550 on: April 07, 2010, 12:45:38 AM »
Jim;
So much to pour over, I don't remember where the photo was of the clear plungers.

The plug that might have been on the end of the line cord, would it have been like the one below. if not does anyone know what it may have looked like if they even had a plug then ?


D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3088
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #551 on: April 07, 2010, 12:49:07 AM »
A couple of things from the article in Life. 

First they note that the payphones of the time already had the numbers outside the dial, is that correct?  Anyone got a picture?

Also I notice that what we call "candlesticks" they call "uprights".  Is that the term used by contemporaries to describe those phones?  If so then why did we start calling them candlesticks?

Looks like they have a production 49' or early 50' model in the picture.
McHeath
They used to be called upright desk sets. I don't know when the term candlestick phone came into use.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3088
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #552 on: April 07, 2010, 12:52:41 AM »
Jim;
So much to pour over, I don't remember where the photo was of the clear plungers.

The plug that might have been on the end of the line cord, would it have been like the one below. if not does anyone know what it may have looked like if they even had a plug then ?


D/P
My Gueuss is that they hardwired to a 42A block with a brown cover. If they were portable then they probably had a switchboard style plug like the portable 302's.

You should be able to get a 42A w/ brown cover pretty easy.
  The clear plunger ad is at
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/category/communications/telephone/page/7/
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #553 on: April 07, 2010, 12:53:46 AM »
Paul notes on his site, Bell System technical journal states in April of 1951 that the,
 
"50 pre-production field test sets, have,

 Internal components similar to the patent drawings...Mine match perfectly for the ringer and the line switch.
Aluminum Dial mount, Like mine has..

 Bell coil wrapped in olive cloth...Just like mine.

 Aiming dots, visible through the fingerwheel holes....Just like mine.
The photo posted shows black plungers, I don't see any evidence that points to anything other than a 1948 Field test set.

D/P
 

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #554 on: April 07, 2010, 12:59:50 AM »
I wonder what their source was for that article..it's dated JUNE 1949
It clearly states that....The new instrument developed by Bell is STILL undergoing tests....SOME trial installations will be made this year '1949'....But regular production by Western Electric, will NOT GET UNDER WAY UNTIL LATE 1950 ????

D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.