Author Topic: Now the Story Can be Told - 1949 WECo 500 Set  (Read 238627 times)

Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #570 on: April 07, 2010, 06:34:08 PM »
Plugs BSP Info

 My issue is BSP C36.201 issue 5, April, 1954 AT&T standard
Jacks and Plugs   Types for inside locations
1.02 (paraphrase)  reissued to include C24.201, C36.201, C36.245, C36.260 and C63.731

2.04 mentions that all sets must be subset style or combined sets (302,500).
This is because of wiring.
I suspect subset styles used the switchboard plugs and 302's, 500's used 4 prong jacks and plugs

5.02 It appears that in April, 1954 the proper plug was283B-type, colors are ivory or brown.

It doesn't have a drawing of 283B
The 293B is square with "ears".

Earlier issues or the other refernced BSP's would give you more accurate info.

I am thinking  a BSP form 1950 would be a good referance if you can find one.


Jim
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #571 on: April 07, 2010, 06:38:19 PM »
D/P,
 Regarding  your (needed)  handset cord (w/ long black conductor). I have seen some photos of repaired cords on the forum. Perhaps you could re-do the end of the cord to create a long black conductor.
Just a thought.
Jim
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Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #572 on: April 07, 2010, 06:56:32 PM »
Jim;
I think that's what I will need to do.
I don't have a problem with that as long as I can find one with the tapered end at the handset. Like the one below. This one is a 3 conductor that came on the 202 with the F1  handset I used to duplicate my Childhood photo.

Bwanna;
I was simply adorable wasn't I...... ::)

D/P
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 07:02:53 PM by Dan/Panther »

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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #573 on: April 07, 2010, 07:22:43 PM »
Doesn't it need a long black conductor at the set end (for the equalizer)?

The cord also needs to be 4 wire and made for use with prongs vs screw.

The taper looks like the photos. The clear plunger ad may have a stubbier gasket. It is hard to tell.

The biggest concern is to find the closet cord that you can.
Jim
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Offline bwanna

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #574 on: April 07, 2010, 07:37:14 PM »
still are, d/p ;)  give me a few to find that plug......working on my taxes right now...ugh :(
donna

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #575 on: April 07, 2010, 07:39:33 PM »
Jim;
Yes the Black wire needs to reach the Network in the normal spot, then the 2 white and 1 red have to reach the EQ.
The handset end needs to connect to the handset like the one below. This is from my 1951 500.
D/P

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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #576 on: April 07, 2010, 08:47:14 PM »
Vern P is looking for a 4-conductor black G type handset cord with the ends that are made for the equalizer.  I haven't heard back from him yet, however.
-Bill G

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #577 on: April 07, 2010, 08:57:20 PM »

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Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #578 on: April 07, 2010, 08:58:39 PM »
Vern P is looking for a 4-conductor black G type handset cord with the ends that are made for the equalizer.  I haven't heard back from him yet, however.

Tell him to take his time.
D/P

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Offline paul-f

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #579 on: April 07, 2010, 10:13:01 PM »
Can anyone direct me to documentation or more examples of the D# system. I have my thoughts on it and want to research further.
D/P

<snip>
My guess on the numbering is that the D- numbers are unique to the macro design of the component.  In past club discussions the D was speculated to stand for "Design" and related to a Bell System design specification.  The D- number on the bottom of a set typically related to the overall spec for the complete set, while the D- number on a component (e.g. ringer) related to the spec for that part.  If there was a major change to the design, the next one made to the new spec would get a new D- number.

Checking other sets on my site (http://www.paul-f.com/weproto.html) shows that sets in the 20s - 31 used Y- numbers, from 32 - 50s used D- numbers and in the 60s - 70s used F- numbers.  Some have speculated that the F stands for "Field Trial" but I know of no definitive source to confirm that.

An example of one set with different F- number versions is the 1960 Contour.  Another project is finding samples of both versions to document the differences -- but that's a discussion for another topic.
<snip>

If the Bell System assigned numbers like engineering firms I worked for several decades later, there was a clerk who maintained the master number assignment list. When an engineer needed a code for a new part, a quick call to the clerk got the next available number on the list.  Unless there was a compelling reason, there was no master numbering plan to assign numbers based on the component's form or function.

The primary real purpose of the D- numbers may have been for the accountants to accumulate material and labor costs of each component during the development phase.
<snip>

I probably have some other examples somewhere in my notes.
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #580 on: April 07, 2010, 10:33:42 PM »
Regarding the F#'s. The clear soft 500 from 1958 has an F#. I have been told they were displayed in telephone offices as part of the display promoting the new color palette.

A while back someone was selling  more than a dozen  F# sets on Ebay. They were all from a telephone office display. They were princess phones and trimlines.
They all had F#'s. Some were gutless display sets and some had guts.
I didn't log the #'s.

My guess is that F#'s may of been used on telephone display sets. This is just a guess. I know of several F# clear early trimlines. Most of the clear WE sets seem to be  used as telephone company displays.
 The later clear telephone display trimlines, were the same as production, they just had transparent housings.

Just something to keep in mind.

Jim

The soft plastic 1958 500 sets came with light gray coiled cords and a bell dial center. I think there are at least 5-6 in the hands of collectors.
BTW Paul, I am still processing you points to ponder.
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Offline paul-f

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #581 on: April 07, 2010, 10:42:05 PM »
I agree, Jim.  F- numbers were used for several things in addition to field trials.  Display sets are one and the internals for customer-supplied housings (F-56659 and F-56660 - which later became the 581 - http://www.paul-f.com/we581.html) come to mind.  There are probably more.
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #582 on: April 07, 2010, 11:13:53 PM »
I agree, Jim.  F- numbers were used for several things in addition to field trials.  Display sets are one and the internals for customer-supplied housings (F-56659 and F-56660 - which later became the 581 - http://www.paul-f.com/we581.html) come to mind.  There are probably more.

A "small batch" run still applies to these examples.
Just a thought,
Jim
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Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #583 on: April 07, 2010, 11:15:22 PM »
Can anyone direct me to documentation or more examples of the D# system. I have my thoughts on it and want to research further.
D/P

<snip>
My guess on the numbering is that the D- numbers are unique to the macro design of the component.  In past club discussions the D was speculated to stand for "Design" and related to a Bell System design specification.  The D- number on the bottom of a set typically related to the overall spec for the complete set, while the D- number on a component (e.g. ringer) related to the spec for that part.  If there was a major change to the design, the next one made to the new spec would get a new D- number.

If the Bell System assigned numbers like engineering firms I worked for several decades later, there was a clerk who maintained the master number assignment list. When an engineer needed a code for a new part, a quick call to the clerk got the next available number on the list. 



I probably have some other examples somewhere in my notes.

This is my thoughts.
The first red highlight, I think the D#177001( on the bottom of my set ), only refers to the chassis, and all attached brackets, and subhousings without insides mounted (Network housing EQ housing dial bracket fastened permanently to the chassis. I think the practice of replacing networks etc, came as an afterthought, and was not an original intention. D#177001, I do not believe was the entire completed phone.
Reason is that other modules that screw or bolt to the chassis (Ringer, Dial etc.) have their own D#. If the previous was the case why assign the ringer a D# ? Is the ringer part of the entire phone or is the chassis part of the ringer, they both have D#'s, see what I'm saying too confusing.

In addition the D#'s in my phone are in sequence from D#177001- D#177018. There are 5 D#'s on the chassis alone, and still another 8 or 10 components not yet found to see what their numbers were, but my bet is that the cords, handset, caps, transmitter element, receiver element, had D#"s that would fill in the missing gaps from D#17701-D#177018. If the previous explanation ( Blue Highlighted )was correct, that would mean that all components in my phone were designed and perfected at exactly the same time, as no new D# were issued for subsequent improvements, all modules are clustered in one small group of D#'s.

I think D#'s are assigned to modules or components, and the 125, 35, 209, are numbers given as 125 of 300.
Example the EQ is D#177018, 35. My thinking EQ is Master part number D#177018, component number 35 of ???.
I would totally agree except that the D#'s are too closely clustered to fit into the previous explanation.

D/P



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Offline bwanna

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #584 on: April 08, 2010, 08:46:21 AM »
well, i found two 4 prong plugs in my "stash". much to my surprise i see that one is marked "japan"...the other "taiwan"    :o

 i have 3 302s at my other house....not sure what if any plugs are on them. will check the next time i am there. if it turns out i have one that you think would be appropriate for your 500, you can have it.

here's a pic of the the "japan"
donna