Author Topic: Now the Story Can be Told - 1949 WECo 500 Set  (Read 238600 times)

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #750 on: April 17, 2010, 12:27:16 AM »
Jim, Paul;

Have we discussed the drawing below as it relates to my phone ?
I've been looking at the drawing submitted to the patent office September 16th, 1948, and I find 7 points that directly match my phone, even the FBI only needs 5 points for positive I.D. on fingerprints.

The matches are as follows.

1) Hook switch same profile.
2) Horizontal Hook switch levers.
3) Screwed on Feet.
4) Same cover as my dial.
5) Overhanging network cover.
6) Frame has missing later model section.
7) 3 point mounted Ringer.

 These points defineitely dates the phone to 1948.

D/P
 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 12:43:22 AM by Dan/Panther »

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Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #751 on: April 17, 2010, 12:35:56 AM »
I've found an 8th match, #8 on the photo, the nut on the EQ.
D/P

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Offline dencins

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #752 on: April 17, 2010, 12:47:29 AM »
Dennis;
Would the people you refer to as "they took them off because they were corroded", would they be subscribers or refurb people. If it were refurb people wouldn't they also have the means to rivet them back on ?
D/P
Dan

Subscribers after the change from leased to owned (early 1980's?).  I doubt many people would want to pay to replace coroded rivets.

When Bell owned the phones the Bell service center would rivet them if the phone was removed from service.  I am not sure when Bell stopped repair service repair centers.   I suspect corroded rivets would not be considered a service issue so it would only happen if the phone was removed for another reason.

Dennis

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #753 on: April 17, 2010, 12:50:38 AM »
Just a little humor:

Looks like yours was original without the handset, according to the drawing there was no handset.  Must have been the early hands-free model.

Actually, that drawing looks like the exact one for your set, all kidding aside.
-Bill G

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #754 on: April 17, 2010, 12:51:02 AM »
Dennis;
Would the people you refer to as "they took them off because they were corroded", would they be subscribers or refurb people. If it were refurb people wouldn't they also have the means to rivet them back on ?
D/P
Dan

Subscribers after the change from leased to owned (early 1980's?).  I doubt many people would want to pay to replace coroded rivets.

When Bell owned the phones the Bell service center would rivet them if the phone was removed from service.  I am not sure when Bell stopped repair service repair centers.   I suspect corroded rivets would not be considered a service issue so it would only happen if the phone was removed for another reason.

Dennis

So are you saying that probably those were replaced by a refurb station as part of a major repair ?
D/P

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Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #755 on: April 17, 2010, 12:52:36 AM »
Just a little humor:

Looks like yours was original without the handset, according to the drawing there was no handset.  Must have been the early hands-free model.

Actually, that drawing looks like the exact one for your set, all kidding aside.

Bill;
Then you would tend to agree that it dates my phone 1948, or earlier ?
That would also explain why mine had no handset !  :o
D/P
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 12:55:16 AM by Dan/Panther »

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Offline dencins

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #756 on: April 17, 2010, 12:56:04 AM »
Dennis;
Would the people you refer to as "they took them off because they were corroded", would they be subscribers or refurb people. If it were refurb people wouldn't they also have the means to rivet them back on ?
D/P
Dan

Subscribers after the change from leased to owned (early 1980's?).  I doubt many people would want to pay to replace coroded rivets.

When Bell owned the phones the Bell service center would rivet them if the phone was removed from service.  I am not sure when Bell stopped repair service repair centers.   I suspect corroded rivets would not be considered a service issue so it would only happen if the phone was removed for another reason.

Dennis

So are you saying that probably those were replaced by a refurb station as part of a major repair ?
D/P
Dan

I would say the use of a screw rather than a rivet probably took place between 1980 and whenever the phone was no longer used by the owner. 

Dennis

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #757 on: April 17, 2010, 01:02:31 AM »
I can't find a single point on that drawing that doesn't match my phone. Does a drawing exist like that for the 49 model ?
D/P

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Offline paul-f

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #758 on: April 17, 2010, 01:23:21 AM »
Jim, Paul;

Have we discussed the drawing below as it relates to my phone ?
I've been looking at the drawing submitted to the patent office September 16th, 1948, and I find 7 points that directly match my phone, even the FBI only needs 5 points for positive I.D. on fingerprints.
<snip>
 These points defineitely dates the phone to 1948.

D/P

D/P:  It certainly looks convincing.  You can also add the plastic fingerwheel to your list of matches.

To clarify, we know that the design was made before the application was filed in Sept 1948, but don't necessarily know when the phone was actually made.  One would guess they had at least one working model when the application was made, but your phone could have been made either before or after that date.

One nice feature of that drawing is that the housing looks like the production housing, so the one currently on your set is probably reasonably accurate.

Another interesting feature of that application is figure 7, which shows the later production model hookswitch and arm.  That hookswitch has the snap in dust cover we associate with the production sets.  Therefore that design was also available on the same date, but we're guessing it wasn't made until the production run.  Hmmmmm.

I'm going to have to budget some time to read the application in detail.

I haven't found a later patent drawing that shows the later set.  All are welcome to search the patent database!
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #759 on: April 17, 2010, 01:27:45 AM »
I have been busy searching some other info:
http://www.archive.org/stream/bellsystemtechni32amerrich#page/611/mode/1up

There are some good photos of early components.
I think starting around fig 7.

I need to go back on this thread and make comments later.
The recent postings are some good stuff.
Jim
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Offline paul-f

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #760 on: April 17, 2010, 01:42:12 AM »

I haven't found a later patent drawing that shows the later set.  All are welcome to search the patent database!

It's possible that the differences were minor enough that a seperate patent filing wasn't made for the 1949 version.
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #761 on: April 17, 2010, 01:44:43 AM »
The article I posted has some difference about changes made. It is around figure 7. I really haven't read thru it yet and compared it to Dan's set.
Jim
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Offline paul-f

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #762 on: April 17, 2010, 01:48:50 AM »
The 1953 BSTJ article focuses on changes made when going from the 425A to 425B network that resulted in eliminating the equalizer.
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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #763 on: April 17, 2010, 01:55:16 AM »
I would have to agree with 1948.
-Bill G

Offline Jim S.

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Re: Now the Story Can be Told.
« Reply #764 on: April 17, 2010, 02:29:26 AM »
Jim, Paul;

Have we discussed the drawing below as it relates to my phone ?
I've been looking at the drawing submitted to the patent office September 16th, 1948, and I find 7 points that directly match my phone, even the FBI only needs 5 points for positive I.D. on fingerprints.

The matches are as follows.

1) Hook switch same profile.
2) Horizontal Hook switch levers.
3) Screwed on Feet.
4) Same cover as my dial.
5) Overhanging network cover.
6) Frame has missing later model section.
7) 3 point mounted Ringer.

 These points defineitely dates the phone to 1948.

D/P
 
Dan,
This is first I have seen of this drawing. You need to print out some nice copies of all these relevant patent drawings for your display.
 I have a 1954 scrap housing that was non-factory line notched, this will make a good part to split for a Patent drawing cut-away housing. 
Housing #2 is broken on the wrong side for the patent housing, but it is good for the clear/ black set.
I will stick it (#3) in the box. This housing came off of the rubber screwed foot phone.
_____________________________________

Regarding the comparison points. Your phone matches. I feel it is safe to say that it predates the 1949 early production sets. At the very least it is a 1948 pre-production set.  BTW the BSTJ May 1949 article shows clear plungers. I am leaning toward clear plungers for the pre-production sets. The black ones were cheaper and probably used in the early production sets as a cost cutting measure (JMO).
I am glad Paul decided to muddle thru the patent info. That stuff is hard to focus on.
JMO,
Jim
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