Author Topic: WE 212 KTU  (Read 993 times)

Offline Babybearjs

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WE 212 KTU
« on: August 20, 2020, 04:18:34 PM »
does anyone have any knowledge on the 212 ktu and the R relay connections? my current issue is that Bank A works fine when called, Banks B and C seem to "Flutter when Called and the R relay doesn't latch up like its suppose to. it release between rings. and then my FA relay stays energized for some reason.... this is only happening with Banks B and C. any suggestions on how to fix it? ir is this setup just too old?
John

Offline Key2871

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2020, 04:37:04 PM »
Didn't you have this issue before?
Have you looked at the schematics for this unit to narrow down the possible solution.
I've looked at the schematics before but I didn't see anything that would hold the relay.
Is that part of the interruper circuit to hold the relay?
 I'm so out of touch with 1A stuff as I've concentrated with 1A2 as it's a LOT easier to work on with and not so antiquated that parts can't really be found for those anymore.
I mean you have a 551, 1A2 it wouldn't be much to covert to that, and it's more reliable with parts still available just about anywhere.
KEN

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2020, 05:25:14 PM »
I would try cleaning the relay contacts.
It wouldn't hurt and might help.
Just something I would try,
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2020, 10:44:54 PM »
I used some contact cleaner on the relays... and I'm still trying to find out what else could cause this problem... Banks B and C don't seem to work right except when called from one of the other in house numbers... could the whole problem be the line voltage? does the "R" relay require a certain voltage to really work right? the wierd thing about this is that this unit was new old stock, still sealed in its original packaging from the 1960's... were these units designed for internal use only? I don't know... according to Phil, the unit works exactly like the 202, times 3.... so what do I need to look at to correct the issue? does anyone know of any documentation that speaks about troubleshooting these units? I'm at a loss....
John

Offline Key2871

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2020, 10:54:54 PM »
I stay away from contact cleaner spray. Because that stuff is very aggressive as far as eating things. I would do my use a piece of card stock as a burnisher to clean contacts.
As for line voltage, everything supplying phone power should be supplying the correct voltage all the time. Have you tried just swapping lines to eliminate that problem?
 That's what I would try, but trying to find anyone who knows all the ins and outs of a system that old is just getting harder everyday.
So try some basic things to try to eliminate the problems. If those don't work, then you may have to think of deeper issues to resolve.
KEN

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2020, 08:04:43 AM »
Ken, I'll have to try that and see what the results are... its just frustrating to have a good peice of equipment, thats suppose to work and it has issues. I had asked earlier about the gapping for the relays, but didn't get any reply... looks like the old 1A1 systems are just too old and no one knows anything about them anymore.... I do have a WE 551C unit that if neccessary I can put that into use... would just swap out the main unit... for now, I'll just stay with what I have... it seems to work, kind of.... lines 2 and 3 in the house are my shop phone and the guestroom phone... I went ahead and activated the 3rd line because it was only a additional $25.00/mo and it was suppose to be for a roommate, which never developed... so I'm keeping it for some sort of future use... fax line, etc. I'm just wondering that I might have missed something I didn't know about when setting up the 212... when banks B and C fail to latch up when energized, it makes me wonder if I missed something...
John

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2020, 09:11:30 AM »
I reread the schematic to the 212 and have a quick question. terminal designation "K" shows the connection to the 211 resistance lamps as well as to Battery B Ground.... does this terminal have to have BOTH the TIP connection as well as the battery ground connection? currently, terminal K is only connected to the TIP side of my landlines.
John

Offline Key2871

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2020, 12:53:33 PM »
John as I've said I'm not into 1A1 stuff. So for the gaps the relays its old equipment and I said it yesterday, no one who worked on this stuff is around to speak of.
I think in the case of those units if one failed they would either pull the faulty unit an replace or in later years the whole thing would have been pulled and scrapped and replaced with a 1A2.

My manual doesn't cover details in the schematics because they are for 1A2. I'd say the resistance lamp is probably the problem because that might have been key to holding a relay for a time, then release.
Again I don't know.
It's noble you want to keep that going for all these years, but some day your going to have to face the reality that it's had its day.

I had issues with one of my systems years back couldn't  figure it out it was just one detention. I swapped extensions nope, line cards everything I could think of. It ended up being a bad wire, just one wire that broke and it perplexed me for a day before I figured out it was that one wire, most everything worked fine except that one station.

So unfortunately there's a lot to look at to find the problem. I used my manuals and my VOM to check voltages etc to find out I had one wire broken.
KEN

Offline poplar1

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2020, 01:01:36 PM »
I thought the resistance lamp was in parallel with the 90 VAC ringing output. In case of a short, the lamp will light so as not to burn up the ringing supply.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2020, 01:15:16 PM »
I thought the resistance lamp was in parallel with the 90 VAC ringing output. In case of a short, the lamp will light so as not to burn up the ringing supply.

That makes a lot of sense , that is probably why it is called a resistance lamp.
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 I trust poplar1's opinion on BSP related info. Check his past posts and you will understand why.
JMO,
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2020, 01:29:13 PM »
John,
If the problems are on you underground cables, then the cables  are most likely the problem.
IIRC you aren't running "wet location" cables.
Try bypassing the underground cable and see if it works right.

You really need wet location rated cable for outside runs. Many times conduits fill with water from condensation. wet non-rated cables can give you all sorts of weird problems.
JMO,
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2020, 02:27:18 PM »
yup, the 1A1 is pretty ancient! but, I do have 1A2 to replace it. My 551C is out in my shed should I decide to enlist it...  the 1A1 came to me cheap and Phil McCarter supplied the chassis. Plus, it make for great conversation. who else has a key system in their house and phones all over the place... since its like an old car.... I guess I'm just going to have to work on it myself.... so, I found the BSP explaining ABOUT the relays, but nothing about servicing them.... oh well.... at least it works.... I was hoping someone on here still knew something about the 1A1 system, but like so many other, has passed.... so I just leave this here... Thank you all so much for the help.... at least I have the equipment to upgrade!
John

Offline RB

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2020, 03:28:28 PM »
Well, I don't know about the FA relay...
Or the rest of that thing for that matter.
What I can say, is a fluttering relay is caused by power starvation.
Cleaning contacts, "that do NOT lead to the relays coil", will not help.
As was suggested, if you have underground cables, they may be at fault.
If you have an ANALOG volt meter, connect it to the relays COIL contacts, and activate it.
you may see the power dive when it trys to energize.

Offline Key2871

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2020, 03:49:48 PM »
Well I've never worked on any thing with a resistance lamp so I didn't know but yes it makes sense.
And UG rated cable is the only way to go when going underground, or the problems would drive anyone nuts.
KEN

Offline rdelius

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Re: WE 212 KTU
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2020, 04:34:16 PM »
I would try another power supply and see if it works normally.