Author Topic: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?  (Read 387 times)

Offline RB

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Recently got a WE candle with a 4 wire hook, and an AE dial. ???
Just received a mini network "thanks Doug".
I need to connect the mini so I have a complete one piece phone. Don't need a bell.

Offline markosjal

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2021, 04:22:08 AM »
Most early hooks are 4 wire There is...

the only difference is that one set should hopefully make contact after the first set when phone goes off hook.

Ideally this same set that Makes Last should also Break first meaning when hung up, it should be the first open set.

This set is Breaks first and makes last

Then there is the other set that breaks last and makes first

The purpose of this is connect the phone spkr element AFTER the phone goes off hook and to break the connection to speaker element BEFORE the phone goes back on hook.

This is a method of supressing loud POPs in your ear.

Now in answer to your question about the mini network. I have seen many diagrams and many AE Mini networks . 


I think all the info you need is right here as long as you can decipher the connections on your mini AE network (the second post might help)

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4951.msg204713#msg204713

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Offline poplar1

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 04:44:19 PM »
Most early hooks are 4 wire There is...

the only difference is that one set should hopefully make contact after the first set when phone goes off hook.

Ideally this same set that Makes Last should also Break first meaning when hung up, it should be the first open set.

This set is Breaks first and makes last

Then there is the other set that breaks last and makes first

The purpose of this is connect the phone spkr element AFTER the phone goes off hook and to break the connection to speaker element BEFORE the phone goes back on hook.


Most Western Electric candlesticks (20-AL, 40-AL, 50-AL, 51-AL) have 3 contact springs, not 4, as originally designed for use with a sidetone subset. The 4-spring 120-ALs and 151-ALs are conversions where the hookswitch was replaced for use with anti-sidetone subsets.

When using a mini-network, 425-type network, or 685A subset with a 3-contact hookswitch, only 2 of the contacts are used, to open one side of the line and hang up the phone. There is no way to avoid the pop in the receiver (unless maybe you add a varistor in parallel with the receiver to reduce the pop somewhat).

With the 4-conductor hookswitch of a 151-AL, 120-AL, or 152-AB, you can use one set of contacts to open the line, and the other set to open the receiver. As stated above, you would want the receiver contacts to open first when hanging up, and to make last when going off-hook.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline RB

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 09:17:53 PM »
Thank you poplar1!

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2021, 10:54:22 AM »
(unless maybe you add a varistor in parallel with the receiver to reduce the pop somewhat).

Some collectors use the varistor from an old g-type handset.
I have never tried it, but that is probably the easiest source to find  a varistor.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline markosjal

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2021, 09:54:35 PM »
.... There is no way to avoid the pop in the receiver (unless maybe you add a varistor in parallel with the receiver to reduce the pop somewhat)....

This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE!

Look at MOST ANY telephone diagram and you will see two sets of hookswitch contacts (although some may even be only 3 conductors ). One set of contacts has the function of muting the pop and the other the function of connecting/disconnecting  the line.  Of course you will not find this on a trimline reset on handset but most every other phone.

This is much like the dial where the receiver element is either shorted or disconnected to avoid that LOUD POP for each pulse

Since I have no candlestick 3 conductor to look at I would bet that even the candlstick 3 conductor swich performs the same function using only 3 wires much the same way as some Asian dial do the same with three wires (3 wire asian dial in hand!)
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Offline markosjal

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2021, 10:01:00 PM »
Some collectors use the varistor from an old g-type handset.
I have never tried it, but that is probably the easiest source to find  a varistor.
Jim

this method is normally used to supplement other suppression methods, like those in the hookswich.

I have seen Ericssons (Mexico) and Indetels (Mexico) with Capacitors across the receiver for this same purpose.
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2021, 10:14:56 PM »
Please  do not quote me out of context. I was specifically referring to WE candlesticks -- the title of this topic -- and it is true that as manufactured most of these WE candlesticks have 3 -- not 4 -- contact springs in the hookswitch. When originally wired to a 534A subset, all 3 contacts were used, and, yes, the receiver opened before the transmitter when hanging up. However, when a 3-contact hookswitch is used with a mini-network (or 685A subset) then only 2 contacts are used. Then you don't have an isolated pair of contacts to open the receiver.

I have not found any WE candlesticks manufactured after 1930. 120-ALs and 151-ALs have 4 contacts for anti-sidetone, but these are all conversions from sidetone sets. I was not talking about 202s, 302s, 500s, or any other manufacturer's candlesticks.
 
This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE!

Look at MOST ANY telephone diagram and you will see two sets of hookswitch contacts (although some may even be only 3 conductors ). One set of contacts has the function of muting the pop and the other the function of connecting/disconnecting  the line.  Of course you will not find this on a trimline reset on handset but most every other phone.

This is much like the dial where the receiver element is either shorted or disconnected to avoid that LOUD POP for each pulse

Since I have no candlestick 3 conductor to look at I would bet that even the candlstick 3 conductor swich performs the same function using only 3 wires much the same way as some Asian dial do the same with three wires (3 wire asian dial in hand!)

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline markosjal

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2021, 11:09:01 PM »
Sorry for that "our of context quote" . I see that now , but This is NOT about 3 conductor hookswitches rather 4 conductor hookswitches as stated in the Original Post

Mark
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Offline dsk

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2021, 12:16:18 PM »
May the diagram here solve it?

Offline RB

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2021, 02:12:40 PM »
Yes, that helps. has both kinds of dials too.
Thanks :)

Offline markosjal

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Re: Anybody got a schematic of a mini net in a WE stick w/4 pin hook sw?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2021, 04:13:28 AM »
As I said you want 4 conductor hookswitch, it is just like the 202
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