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Cross connection wiring frustration!

Started by Babybearjs, July 23, 2021, 04:16:55 AM

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Another thing I just remembered.
If your punching a heavier wire on punch blocks then 22 to 24 gauge, your compromising the pins on the block because they are only used for 22 to 24 gauge wire.
And if the pins get compromised then no matter what you try to punch on those terminals it won't pierce the insulation correctly ever again. And that right there is another reason for problems that will be next to impossible to diagnose with out the correct tool to do so.
So, in as many ways as I've pointed out in the last two posts, I believe others have also done it as well.
Use the correct wire for all your connections using telephone equipment. That in its self greatly lessens the probibility of trouble later.
That's why it's important to use the correct wire, connections etc.

Would use use light cord with 18 gauge wire to wire outlets in your house? I should hope not, because the wire is not of the proper type of gauge.
And your asking for a fire that will most probably burn your house flat.

As a retired electrician I've seen similar problems.
Like a guy who ran his kitchen electric range using 10-3 wire, after it had been wire nutted to #6 wire. The proper size, but he wanted to move the stove and figured it would be ok until and electrical wired it back proper. But the thing he didn't even think of was the resistance using a much smaller wire to feed 250 volts at 60 amps. The wire would get warm or hot depending on the function the stove was set at.

Now that's not going to happen with your key system, but the unseen damage you inflict on connections you can't see will be very evident because you'll have nothing but an endless string of troubles that you won't be able to figure out.

Spend your money right, get 25 pair wire You can use cat 3 that's fine for these systems.
Then using the extra pairs connect your other goodies.
If you use relays for common high voltage stuff ( higher than 70 volts) then use a common power wire as a carrier, and other singles as control leads.
You would be amazed how much you can actually control with 25 pair wire, because you'll still have up to 4 or 5 pair if you change very little.
But if your using 564 sets then your out of luck, but given the amount of parts you most likely have you can just replace the 37 conductors with 50 then you gain the extra wires. And even at that if you wire ITT sets properly you can probably get away by using 37 conductors, because you will have three solid pair and perhaps an extra lead .
I can't recall right off because my manual is in the shop.
Unless your using this stuff outside it will be fine under the house, just keep it off the ground because of moisture and critters who love to chew wires.



Payphone installer

Just follow the color code that is why it was created,if you don't know your color code you will never get it right.

Doug Rose



Screenshot (modern color cable code) from above link.
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble


Yes very good. I printed one off for myself years ago to remind me when I was doing my system handy as handy gets.


as far as the color code goes, I've always had a copy of that. learned a long time ago that the color scheme went: Wht, Red, Blk, Yel, Vio. i just was having issues with the tip/ring... I'm so used to wiring stuff Hot/neutral that when my friend Ken mention I had the tip/ring reversed, I had to start thinking differently. it was hard for me to get used to wiring the grounds first... I'm not used to that. An electrician told me once that the reason the ground is up is so if anything metallic falls on the outlet the ground will kick in and help protect the circuit... but, that only works on metal boxes... plastic is the norm now in many cases... anyway, I finally understood what he was saying and now I always start with the ground on pin 1 of the #66 blocks... so, it goes Tip/ring, tip/Ring, tip/ring, etc. I solved my expansion problem by moving the rack I have the #208KTU array on, over and adding 2 more #66 blocks.  so now I don't have to worry about not enough cross connections. they will mainly just be extras, as the system is totally wired and all I have to do is clean up my connections. I went through my #208 array and found some issues that I corrected... I think one of the big issues with my setup is the fact that I utilize the 10 and 18 volt lines for various accessories and I seem to have to tap into the TO and other signally features when I expand the system. I find myself having to run extra wires to feed these circuits... thats where the mess come in... LOL!  :) talk to you all later!


As I said have a common carrier, I use the 18 Volt for signal, with a rectifier you can change the AC to DC then use a 12 volt relay there is enough amperage to drive a relay using slightly less voltage.
You can even encoperate a capacitor to give the circuit boost.
But by doing so, you don't have a bunch of wires running around for all the different circuits.
You've simplified a lot by doing that.
Just don't over draw on the supply and strain your power unit. Write everything down for each circuit, making notes as to color code you used.
Just keep them straight through the entire system.

If a problem comes up, refur to your notes and that just made everything easier.
AC relays using low voltage are not common so using a good low ohm DC relay is good, and a rectifier able to handle all tumour relays draw is important but it's not recamended doing so.

Power units are tough but be nice to them because they aren't cheap to replace.

Not every thing will need a relay either, when I listened to music via my keys system I just had the out out go through the key set. High voltage went through a relay.

And keep your wiring straight and use 22 to 24 gauge only.
Using Telco wire even if you make a custom cable on your system board, keep the color code.
I would keep shething from lager core wires to house my own mix of wires and mark the cable clear as to what it does. Again writing it all down in the event of trouble.

I learned a that long ago when I first started out.
Makes things way eaiser to go back and remind you of what you did.
So important to be organised standardised.

These old key sets are so versital and actually fun to play around with.


yeah, I understand what you are saying. like I mentioned before, I added a 24 volt relay on my electric fireplace and have it run through the 18 volt PS. it works fine, as I added a thermostat to the circuit to regulate the heat... the PSU runs the relay just fine, and I've even had to replace the fuse a few times and am probably going to go up to a 3 amp fuse on that circuit. its basically the buzzer power supply so if I'm not using the buzzers, it only powers the fireplace relay when used. I did have a window AC unit set up the same way and it worked out just fine. wound up pulling out the unit when I got the central AC repaired last spring... its now in storage as an emergency unit. I'm in the process of rewiring my 208 KTU array, bulled it and now I'm putting it back together.... I hate the system sometimes, so many connections to make and a few to daisy chain.... I'm taking my time.... I also have to order some more 12 and 24 volt T2 LED's. mostly 24 volt is what I need, they are for my alarm panel. I also discovered that terminal #21 on the 208 KTU doesn't do anything, so I might try to add a pilot light to that terminal and see what it does... its tied to the LS relay, so it might just flash when energized. I'm discovering that there are a few unused terminals on the 200 series KTU's that can be utilized for pilot light use. (when wired correctly.... ) sometimes they work, others they don't. but its worth trying. I'm having to rewire my alarm panel block as I pulled some cross connects out to clean up the wiring and have to reinstall them. all just pilot lights, indicators for incoming calls and busy lights. I never really got the alarm panel fully functioning because of the time it takes to wire the darn thing properly... I have 30 lights, 10 for incoming calls, 10 for line busy status and 10 for ICM signaling (they are wired parallel with the station buzzers).  tons of cross connects... since only 10 of the 20 lamps are used in my system, then the remaining lamps get used for power indication and other options. I wish you were here to actually see this setup in person.. you'd be amazed...

Doug Rose

Just a reminder from over a year ago.

Deja Vu all over again...Doug

Posts: 9188
Blondie & the Kid of Phone
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Re: FINALLY! its up and running...
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 12:29:12 PM »
John....I am an old phoneman, worked in the industry my entire life. I have maintained many switch rooms and was proud of them. I tightened  the cross wire field every Friday. Any tech could come in and see exactly what went where.

You should tighten up your crosswire field. Have all crosswire the same length with the same service loop and use the spools at the top of each row for the crosswire to loop over. Every 66 block should be level with the same distance from each other..

Crosswire everywhere is a disaster waiting to happen. Nice even crosswire is an easy pull and you do not pull off crosswire you did not want to pull. Worse loosen a connection to give you a light show and spend hours trying to find it.

Treat your switch room the same as you would your collection. Display it perfectly.

Just my humble opinion...Doug


yup... and now I'm hoping to be able to clean up my poor wire routing designs...