Author Topic: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone  (Read 14394 times)

Offline TIPandRING

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Re: A tutorial on phone connections--Part #1
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2009, 11:17:15 PM »
ohhhhhh.
yellow line wire to green post inside phone AND inside phone black wire (from ringer) to green post screw.
i figure i should do this no matter what as i've taken it apart and its big and heavy and in my face. a good thing about phones is they're low voltage.
if i do this, i can move to any phone jack in my house too.



NO I  was trying to state that tying the yellow and green wires together inside the phone, will not help.

It's tying the green and yellow together at the baseboard jack that makes the phone ring.  It is by far easier to just leave the connections inside the phone alone. Then when you wire the phone up to the wall jack, or add a modular adapter to the end of the original cord, simply connect the yellow and green wires coming out of the line cord together and put them under the "green" screw at the jack or adapter and the red wire under the "red" screw. Voila! Phone works and it rings.

 :D

Offline luns

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Bridle wire?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 08:25:27 PM »
A)Acetate-based aerial lead-in wire (2 conductor)
G) "Bridle wire"--used in the days before plastic "station wire" was run

When I left home, I took the old protector, and a few feet of no-longer-used bridle wire (I didn't know it was called that!) as souvenirs.

I'm wondering whether this usage of the term 'bridle wire' to refer to twisted triple conductor cord is well established, or if it grew out of a misunderstanding.

My understanding of 'bridle wire' is that it refers to the usage of the wire rather than the type of wire itself (aside from being wire intended for said usage), and refers to wire that hangs loosely between attachment points or occasional support rings (bridle rings). I would think an aerial lead-in would fit this description, but cable draped loosely from hanger to hanger along side a joist should count too. Indeed, the one remaining run of triple-conductor phone line in my parents house, follows a floor joist, loosely threaded through a series of bridle rings; disconnect one end, and you can just pull the whole line out with your bare hands.

Modern day examples:
http://ce.superioressex.com/products/communications/osp-cable/wire/Bridle-Wire/
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/bline/Resources/Library/catalogs/commdata_equipment/commdata_supports/SSF-BridleRings.pdf

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 12:49:13 AM »
Here in British Columbia Canada we had 2 conductor non jacketed wire that we called Bridle Wire. Effectively it was jumper wire but had a very tough and fairly thick plastic insulation on each conductor that also likely had UV protection in the plastic. We used this Bridle Wire in outdoor locations on poles between two terminals. These were usually a pole or strand mounted Ready Access (RA) terminal (CO cable) and the terminal on the end of a Figure 8 Drop wire providing service to a building. Bridle wire was the wire run usually in Bridle Rings between these two terminals. Old non jacketed Station Wire may look like Bridle Wire (except that the Station Wire here always had 3 conductors) but we never called this Bridle Wire. It was "Station Wire" or also frequently referred to as "Style" from an older description likely derived from wire names such as "Style A" or "Style B" wire.

Terry

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 08:02:52 PM »
Now, I'm totally confused.... you guys are suppose to know this stuff..... the color code has changed but this thread makes no sense... we all know the originalstation wiring was R/G/Y/Blk.... Red=Ring, Grn=Tip, Yel=Gnd. and Black was Aux. when the color code was updated, it went from Grn/Red/Yel/Blk to Blue Blue/Wht and Orange/ Org/Wht.   this is for JUST THE STATION WIRING. as far as the line cord goes, the wiring hasn't changed at all. its still R/G/Y. yellow used to be ground but is not used anymore. so, it stays used, but dead. in the 302, the yellow wire goes to the GND terminal by itself, and does not get used. the Grn/Red wires get connected as usual to the L1/L2 terminals. why this subject is even on here is beyond me..... the wiring has always been simple.... for further info, go to www.wire-your-phones.com for details
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 08:13:14 PM by Babybearjs »
John

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 10:01:53 PM »
I think the discussion really started out as an observation about 3 wire line cords and putting the yellow and green together to have the ringer connected. Prior to modular connectors which was also when quite a few more party lines existed, this method was very clever as a phone could be installed as a Provate Line, Party 1 or Party 2 all without having to open the phone up to play with ringer wires inside.

Once modular plugs arrived on the scene this was no longer possible unless wiring was palyed with in the wall jack but wiring shouldn't be messed with there. Jacks should all be standard.

The change in station wire color coding came with the change from individual conductors to twisted pairs as far as I know. Set cords, Jacks and old station wire are all individual conductors and the color code for them is Green, Red, Black, Yellow, White, Blue etc.

Twisted Pairs use the Wh-Bl & Bl-Wh, Wh-Or & Or-Wh, (etc) color code. The Wh-Bl & Bl (solid colored Ring conductor) is really only used sometimes in 4 pair wire as with less than 6 pairs there is no need for the Red, Black, Yellow and Violet colors so the White isn't really needed on the Blue lead.

Terry

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2016, 10:46:54 PM »
Now, I'm totally confused.... you guys are suppose to know this stuff..... the color code has changed but this thread makes no sense... we all know .....

Well, maybe so.  TIPandRING posted the original message 7 years ago and it was a pretty good post.  At that point this forum was only about 4 months into existence and the forum was in need of informative posts like the one he started.  Along came a couple people and expressed their confusion that they did not previously know about the need for a ground wire for divided ringing.  I think that was a great example of what this forum is all about.  Namely education.

OK, so sometimes a thread can go sideways and people have different opinions and experiences when it comes to some things.  Once in a while misinformation has been known to be disseminated.  Lord knows, I have said things here thinking I was absolutely correct, only to be corrected and that too is educational.

I really get a lot from these posts even if it is on a topic that I think I already know everything about. 
-Bill G

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 10:55:43 PM »
never hurts to review changes.... its like taking a test.....you have to read up on it to understand the changes.
John

Offline kb3pxr

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2018, 08:20:04 PM »
I've always wondered about the yellow ground wire, especially in areas served by independents. While my research indicates yellow was standard in the Bell System, I've seen installations where yellow was not present, but black was. In my own house the original wiring (from when my parents moved in) only had red, green, and black. While black was not connected, was that used for ground in some areas. Also I've seen wiring in GTE territory for pay phones that was the same scheme of red, green, black. Did independents just use black instead?

Also, there is a generation of protector between the one shown in this thread and today's modern network interface. The protector module contains three terminals, two for the line, and one for ground. There are two sets of nuts on the line terminals, the set toward the back is for the incoming line and the set toward the front is for the station. TII still makes these protectors as well. The only major differences between these and the modern NID are the lack of a modular jack or demarcation (no customer side, yet telco tech told my dad in the 90s we could work on that side).

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2018, 10:04:06 PM »
 ;D Love the post..... but let me bring you up to speed..... your article talks about the OLD way the phone system used to work.... the red and green have been replaced with blue and white... and the yellow is no longer used. (unless you really need to). the old "reliable" block has been updated to a modern interface that uses gas tube instead of carbon and the polarity still matters. back in the day, one used to be on a PARTYLINE, thus the use of the yellow wire... the ringer was attached to either the green or red and the yellow wire... all phone now are on a single line circuit... now we only use the green and red- or blue and white, which ever the case may be.... and of course since everyone uses a CELL PHONE.... landlines are becoming obsolete.... BUT.... there are still some of us who HATE cell phones and are hold outs for the good old traditional phone service.... or as it used to be called, POTS! (Plain Old Telephone Service, or P-O-T-S) No touchtone, no caller ID no speed dial, no fancy services.... just the dial tone and some long distance.... and a good old ROTARY phone.... ;D ;D ;D The post is appreciated! I love seeing the old stuff....   now, comes the question..... if you live in tornado alley, do you still use this kind of wiring? (or has it all been "Blown Away"..) Lightning is still the enemy of the telephone and in some areas... is pretty active... so... the yellow wire would still have to be used... does this area still wire their phones the old way?
John

Offline kb3pxr

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2018, 11:00:47 PM »
There are two wires to the ground terminal in the old system, there is the telephone set ground, but also the earth ground. Lighting protection is provided by the earth ground. There are two types of protection primary, and secondary. The telephone company provides primary protection, the customer provides secondary protection if/when needed.

Primary protection is provided by the protector, in later schemes the drop wire works with the protector to complete the protection. The primary protection is for lightning (except direct hit to the wire, nothing can protect against that), power crosses (power line contacts telephone line) and induction (surge on another wire affects the telephone wire). The older protectors had fuses (the one in the first post had them integrated into the protector modules themselves), newer protectors are fuseless and use the drop cable as a fuse during a cross.

Primary protection is fine UNTIL you start connecting to the telephone network and another system such as the power grid. Answering machines, cordless phones, modems, even high end corded phones can have this problem. Key systems and PBX systems have this as well.

When this type of equipment becomes involved, you now need secondary protection, the FCC actually requires limited secondary protection in the equipment (to protect the phone company's lineman, not your wallet), but additional protection is required. Secondary protection includes overvoltage protection that operates during the short "overshoot" period between the surge starting and the protector operating. Solid state devices clamp the overshoot until the gas tube starts conducting and takes the surge. You need to also consider sneak currents in some cases as well, especially PBX, key, and central office systems. Traditionally this was provided by a fuse or heat coil system where the heat coil would open the line and require replacement. Newer protection modules use a PTC thermistor system or a heat coil system that will actually short the sneak current until the fault clears.

Offline markosjal

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2018, 03:08:11 AM »
In Mexico there is NO LIGHTNING PROTECTION USED ON COPPER LINES!

Also no ground on CATV coax

I know one guy who Fried every wired device on his network which was connected to a cable modem. He lost like to computers , a multifuncion printer and a VoIP device.

I have looked for anything that looks like telco quality lightning supressors here and no luck. I see some asian cheapies on ebay but not sure if they are worth it.

Ok beseides devided ringing on party lines tip/ground , ring/ground, and bridged , wasnt frequency specific ringing also uses? PArty 1 30 hz and party 2 40 hz ?

It was always my understanding that a telephone ringer circuit is an L/C tank circuit tuned to the 20Hz ringing

I remember many years ago I had a 354 with a Tube in it . As I was very small and did not ubnderstand fully but believe it was part of the ringer circuit. Was this how early frequency ringing was achieved?


Mark

Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

Offline dsk

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2018, 06:02:21 AM »
In Norway the copper pair is just wired to the first Jack, that acts as the demarcation point. Usually no ground, and no protection as fuses or lightening protection.   If you have a coax no protection, same procedure.  The internet devices and cables as cat 5 or higher may be shielded, but has no connection to ground/earth.  In very old phone installations ground could be used for signalling as in grounded ringing.

dsk

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2018, 08:36:50 AM »
I always heard that it was acceptable to have no protector on a communications circuit if it were all underground cableing. But since an underground service could be above ground at other locations as it travelled from CO to subscriber our Telco chose to use protection in both ends of the circuit in all situations.

I wonder if COs have protectors still in locations such as Mexico or Norway that don’t use protectors at the subscriber end?

There are many ways used to ring phones on Party lines, one method used different tuned Ringer frequencies in phones on party lines with greater than two parties on the line. This method is primarily associated with Automatic CO’s not Manipual CO’s. The ringers for two party lines were typically regular SL ringers and were connected tip to ground or ring to ground. If a four party line then all phones had frequency ringers in them, typically 20~ and 30~ Using the tip or ring to ground connections to create the four different scenarios. This method could provide selective ringing to up to about 10 parties typically.

Someone will explain the use of the tube....I don’t think it was an alternate way of accomplishing the above but maybe a method required in some circumstances possibly due to distance from the Automatic CO?

Terry


Offline dsk

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2018, 08:52:39 AM »
I always heard that it was acceptable to have no protector on a communications circuit if it were all underground cableing. But since an underground service could be above ground at other locations as it travelled from CO to subscriber our Telco chose to use protection in both ends of the circuit in all situations.


Terry



They used Krone connectors on poles and probably in CO here they had lists with dual protectors with spark gap.  Like this: http://yuhui.en.hisupplier.com/product-993761-10-Pair-Krone-Protection-Magazine.html  This link my die, and I have no pictures  >:(

dsk
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 11:19:41 AM by AE_Collector »

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline poplar1

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Re: Proper line-in wiring for your telephone
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2018, 10:35:27 AM »

Someone will explain the use of the tube....I don’t think it was an alternate way of accomplishing the above but maybe a method required in some circumstances possibly due to distance from the Automatic CO?

4-party selective or 8-party semi-selective using superimposed ringing and  biased ringers and cold cathode tubes. WE 501, WE 306 (H5 tel set mounting),/WE 356. Earlier sets used relays (297G subset). After tubes, diodes used instead:

+ Tip
- Tip
+ Ring
- Ring.    (Not necessarily in that order.)

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.