Author Topic: U1's That Become U3's  (Read 2305 times)

Offline rp2813

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U1's That Become U3's
« on: February 28, 2011, 11:16:03 AM »
I have two U1 receiver elements that have been converted to U3's.  One is dated 1958, the other 1953.  Even though the original 44A component has been removed and replaced by WE with a little Tic-Tac thing on a wire, there are no subsequent dates on either receiver element.  The only additional markings are "U3" painted over where the "U1" designation is molded into the base.

Does anyone know the reason why WE didn't apply a refurbishing/testing date in this situation?  Lack of space maybe?  It's as if WE is saying the original manufacture date still applies, even though both of my elements returned to WE sometime considerably later than their date of manufacture and were upgraded (and presumably tested) with the new component.

My dilemma is whether or not a 1953 phone that had such a receiver element could really be considered entirely 1953.  WE seems to suggest it could, but I tend to disagree, and I'm sure purists would as well.

Any thoughts?
Ralph

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 12:22:10 PM »
Ralph I would say that a '53 phone with the U3 is a refurbished '53.  That U3 wasn't around until much later, as you know.  So the original U1 is dated '53 as is the rest of the phone?  It seems odd that the repair to the element would have taken place and ended up back in the original phone unless it was done on scene--like at the subscriber's residence/business.

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 02:02:34 PM »
Ralph I would say that a '53 phone with the U3 is a refurbished '53.  That U3 wasn't around until much later, as you know.  So the original U1 is dated '53 as is the rest of the phone?  It seems odd that the repair to the element would have taken place and ended up back in the original phone unless it was done on scene--like at the subscriber's residence/business.
That is a good point Dennis.
I wonder if that was one of those "field Upgrade when found" situations.

There was a standard rewire on early trimline bases  .

I beleve it may of been to make them compatable with later handsets.
JMO,
Jim
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You die, you forget it all.

Offline rp2813

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 02:53:15 PM »
I can't remember which phone it came off of.  I do know that it wasn't a matching dates phone.

I doubt it was a field repair.  From the looks of things, it would require some specialized work to remove the post/rivet that fastens the 44A to the back of the receiver element.  The U1's that have been converted to U3's don't have that post anymore.  I was thinking of putting it back to U1 status by taking a 44A from another receiver, but it would require grinding down or sawing off the fastening post, and then the one that had been converted would be missing that post, so restoring it to U1 isn't possible.

It seems strange to me that not a single U1 element I own, including those that have been converted to U3, has anything but the original date on it.  Is there even such a thing as a receiver element with additional dates on it besides the original manufacture date?
Ralph

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 03:05:34 PM »
Ralph, I have seen modified dates on elements.  I'll look through my box of elements and see if I have something close to the 53 date.  What is the month?

Offline HarrySmith

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 03:07:21 PM »
While you are checking element dates I am still looking for elements to complete my birthday phone, 6/5/57!
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
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Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 03:08:34 PM »
Ok Harry, I'll check.  I write all of these down and then forget about them, or can't remember who wanted what.  I don't have a lot, but one never knows, I just might have what you need or eventually will run into one.

Offline HarrySmith

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 04:36:16 PM »
Thanks Dennis ;D
Anyone else that may have the dates I need? Also need 2 black handset caps from 1957.
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline rp2813

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 05:15:06 PM »
Dennis, the receiver is dated 4-24-53.  The interesting thing about this one is that the back is more of a dark brown maroon color instead of the usual black, and the date paint and U3 designation paint is white.  I have a '58 that's been converted to U3 and that one has the black backing but has green date and yellow U3 designation instead of vermillion paint.

I wasn't looking to find another element to replace the 4/53 with.  It's currently a spare and wouldn't help to match dates in any of my phones.  But, if you can use the 4-24-53 dated element and aren't concerned that it's been upgraded to a U3, I'd be happy to trade it for another one of 50's vintage.  Otherwise, don't go to any trouble.  I created this thread purely out of curiosity.

Harry, all I own of '57 vintage is a ringer dated 1/57 so it wouldn't exactly work for a 6/57 phone, although a set that rolled off the line in 6/57 could plausibly contain a 1/57 ringer.  If you're interested, I'd trade it for a ringer of similar vintage.

I've started looking for 9/54 parts, or 9/2/54 on the more specifically dated ones, so would be interested in trading for those dates in particular.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 11:38:15 PM by rp2813 »
Ralph

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 12:23:36 AM »
Ralph, if you look real close at your 4/53 receiver...look where the U3 is printed.  It looks like the old U1 is below that.  I may be seeing things.

I have found after examining a few of the U1's and U'3's tonight that there are a few variations as far as colors.  Most are black with orange or black with white lettering.  I also found a few of the brown ones with white lettering.

I mistakenly thought that you need to replace the 4-53.  I found a T1 transmitter dated 4-53 but as close as I could come to April of 53 is 6-30-53 for the U1.

Also, the second photos I'm going to post is two that were modified.  Note on one that there is an X marked over the old U1 designation and it's been re-designated U3.  At the top of the element is a Repair date of 3 72.  The original date is not visible.  The other photo does show one with an original date of 10-19-60.  Above that is a refurbish date when it was converted to U3, marked 2-73.

Offline rp2813

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 12:46:44 AM »
Thanks again Dennis.

And yes, my 4/53 has the "real" U1 under the painted U3.

I noticed a couple of things in the pix you posted.  I have a 3/53 transmitter and the date has that same wispy paint job like on yours.  Could there have been a Great Vermillion Shortage of II/53?

Also, if you look at my '58 receiver above, it still has two ends that didn't get a dollop of solder.  Perhaps a trainee did that one.

Thanks for posting the re-dated receivers.  I guess they had no choice in some instances but to obliterate the original date.



Ralph

Offline GG

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Re: U1's That Become U3's
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 09:17:45 AM »


Ralph - Your U3 with the odd colored plastic components:  Interesting puzzle there. 

ITT/Kellogg U3s are often found with swirly plastic, but every one I've seen (typically 1970s) has also had its varistor attached by being soldered at one end and somewhat sloppily wrapped around the terminal screw at the other end.  SC were neater about mounting the varistor than ITT, but 1953 is too early for SC to be making U-type elements: they were still a decade or more away from licensing the WE patents and producing their own 500s. 

Anyone who worked at WE might know something about whether WE could have produced odd-colored U1s or U3s.