Author Topic: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405  (Read 4944 times)

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2011, 09:38:48 PM »

Those Ericssons had the R/C "networks" in them (no induction coils, weird eh?) and were legit (and they had a cool sound to them, difficult to describe but nice), so therefore it seemed legit to use them in WE 202s and AE 1A Monophones and suchlike.

As everyone knows, many people buy a deskset I.E. a B or D mount AKA a 102 or 202, thinking that was the complete phone.  Often they are disapointed to find out that when they just hook it up to the house wiring, it is not going to work very well.  Often, after spending 50 or 60 bucks, people don't have the cash to lay out nearly that much again for a subset.

I have suggested a few times that people get a simple modular connecting block with screw terminals and go to Radio shack and get a resistor and a capacitor and wire it together.  This thing costs next to nothing, and granted is not made for the purist, but doesn't modify the phone in any way.

It produces pretty much a sidetone effect, since there is no antisidetone inductor, and because there is no inductor at all, there is no "booster effect", but instead, an almost un-detectible amout of signal loss.  It does do a good job of separating the receiver from the transmitter and keeping DC out of the receiver.  I cannot tell much difference between that and a regular sidetone circuit.

With land lines what they are today, and even connected to VOIP, this "Cheater" circuit works rather well, and is certainly a step in getting a phone into use until a subset can be gotten.

-Bill G

Offline GG

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2011, 02:45:07 AM »


Doug, I imagine that our debates will give rise to much amusement around here : - )

Just to be clear, I didn't start out in life with the intention to do bad things to good equipment.  My pals & I actually installed scores of 302s and AE 41s (and a few Kelloggs 1000s, but hardly any SC 1243s for some reason) for paying customers when we were in high school and college.  We modded the Dutch Ericssons, Standard Electrics, and HEEMAFs to produce 2-line phones (with hold), residential hold & transfer systems, and a few other things one might read about in the history of phone phreaks but shall remain undisclosed here : - ) .   When I was a young'un, I even drilled holes to accommodate various switches and pushbuttons and lights and similar vulgarities, though by the time I got to college I'd learned better and started mounting my clever little circuits in outboard boxes.  I think I may even have some of that hardware still around, I should go look.

From my experience, these things are practical artifacts with an embodied aesthetic and set of values having to do with longevity and reliability.  Those that one finds in all-original condition and other exceptional examples should be kept as found and/or properly restored, and that's how I built up a decent collection over the years.  And of course I have high respect for folks who can do the job exactly right, of which the restoration of the 1948 500 is an exemplary case with major historic significance. 

But seeing as the telcos reconditioned and substituted parts freely etc., doing that within the confines of the industry standards of the time, for phones that have already been through the process or aren't historically special in some way, shouldn't be cause for offense.  For example a batch of 302s found with their dials missing, and without the words Bell System on the handsets (indie telcos used them too), plus a batch of AE 51A dials, adds up to a blasphemy and a bunch of working phones that people enjoy having in their homes and actually using.  The blasphemy of using AE dials on 302s is less if the 302s weren't Bell to begin with, and is readily forgiven by people who put these in their homes. 

A desk stand, 102, 202, AE 1A, etc., sold as a working phone should certainly be wired to work, and I don't consider the R/C network to be a "cheat," since Ericsson did it on their N-1900s for PAX service, and it does make the phone everyday-usable.  To the extent that a house might have had (70 years ago) two 202s but one ringer box in a location where it could be heard, the 202 itself would appear to be a stand-alone.  If someone can't spring a few hundred bucks or more to get their station wiring redone to interface both phones to a common subset, it's OK to install two 202s with R/C networks and one ringer box without induction coil etc. to produce an equivalent result.

But I think the thing we can all agree on (Doug and I and others) is the difference between "destructive modifications" and "nondestructive modifications."  Where I would draw the line is:

It's nondestructive if it does not involve drilling holes or soldering, because it can be put back to original condition by simply moving wires on terminal screws or replacing parts (e.g. an AE dial on a WE desk stand, can be changed out for a WE dial).   

It's destructive if it involves doing anything that can't be restored to original condition: holes, soldered wiring, bizarre paint jobs or conversely, polished brass that has to be prepped before it can be repainted black, etc. 

And whatever is done should always be disclosed if known, per Mariepr and I, and our disclosures about what we may have done to make something work.  A 202 with a home-made base extender does not a prototype make, but could legitimately be represented as "artistic license" and a hand-made artifact expressing one possible design path had the telcos decided to keep recycling their 202s indefinitely and started mounting ringers in them.   Good fiction claimed as such, is good fiction; only when it's claimed as fact is it a problem.   



Offline wds

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2011, 08:24:18 AM »
So, is this a constructive repair, or destructive?  Ebay item # 290541699139
Dave

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2011, 08:29:42 AM »
To me, I reckon it's okay if nothing had to be changed in a manner that would not let it go back to it's original state and that it is just temporary till the correct tube is found.

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 09:57:59 AM »
So, is this a constructive repair, or destructive?  Ebay item # 290541699139

Its my auction they way it was found. I held on to it for years and never did anything with it. Its cool looking, but I don't know if it was a repair. I think it was someone being creative. If I collected clear sets, (ahem!) I'd want this. I don't think it was a piece of cake to make....Doug
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Offline HarrySmith

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 10:04:44 AM »
I saw Dougs auction last night. It caught my attention as I was browsing through a lot of phones. I think it is a cool idea and I agree, it would look great in a collection of clear phones! It uses some candlestick parts that maybe would be trashed without it and does not state it is original anything. I would like to have one made of glass with a glass mouthpiece, very cool!
Harry Smith
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Offline Doug Rose

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 10:27:40 AM »
I have to disagree with you Doug as not all VOIP services will read rotary pulse dialing.  Indeed even Rotatone does not work on all - Don says that they have not yet been able to get the Rotatone work on MagicJack.  

You have used a public forum to ask if my customers "know that the phones are a hybrid mix of old and new?" Would you please cite a specific listing that you believe fits this description and describe what you consider a "hybrid".  
All I am saying is I sell original parts, working phones everyweek on eBay. I can only assume (I know, I know) that not every one is on a POTS line. No one has ever asked if it will work on VOIP and if you check my feedback, I have sold a few. My phones work on my Comcast. I never heard of a rotatone until I asked on the Forum a few months ago.

This is not a slam against you, it is a question of why something has to be added to perfectly working phones. A 102 or a 202 did not have a ringer, why add a chirpy little ringer to it? I assume (here we go again) that there might be another phone in the house.

You did start this by stating that I consider a Frankenphone looks like every phone you sell on eBay. Horrors! Holy BSP Batman. or words like this. Remember?

By the way, who is Don? Is he like Ath*r or St*ph. I have been around a while, but that name does not ring a bell. Peace....Doug

PS...would you really have put a mini AE network or a chirpy ringer in the B1 I just sold?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 10:31:31 AM by Doug Rose »
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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2011, 11:05:52 AM »
By the way, who is Don? Is he like Ath*r or St*ph. I have been around a while, but that name does not ring a bell. Peace....Doug


I believe Mariepr was referring to Don Woodbury at Old Phone Works, who sells the Rotatone. 

-Bill G

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2011, 07:54:01 PM »
By the way, who is Don? Is he like Ath*r or St*ph. I have been around a while, but that name does not ring a bell. Peace....Doug


I believe Mariepr was referring to Don Woodbury at Old Phone Works, who sells the Rotatone. 


thanks Bill....I appreciate it...Doug
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Offline GG

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2011, 09:12:14 AM »


I know little about desk stands, but what it appears you have there is a nondial WE desk stand base, with a WE 1930s "space saver" dial cup screwed onto the front, plus the clear tube, and probably original WE hookswitch and transmitter. 

I'd call it artistic license, sell it as "parts" (...."if you know how to wire these, find yourself a dial and a receiver..."), and aside from that, not really know what to make of it. 

If it had dial, receiver, and wiring, such that it worked one way or another, then sell it as artistic license and unknown pedigree. 

If that is indeed a "space saver" dial cup mounted to the front of a nondial WE base, then technically that would be a destructive mod.  OTOH, it might also be "making something out of parts when one doesn't have the rest of the parts to finish the project." 

As long as it's not sold in a misleading manner e.g. "original prototype blah blah blah!", I can't find it in me to get all critical of this example.   Others may differ.  I think there's someone missing from this discussion because he'd be sickened by seeing a picture of something he'd consider the congenitally disabled offspring of a deranged mind : - )

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: FrankenPhone!!!! eBay 170609748405
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2011, 10:39:18 AM »


I know little about desk stands, but what it appears you have there is a nondial WE desk stand base, with a WE 1930s "space saver" dial cup screwed onto the front, plus the clear tube, and probably original WE hookswitch and transmitter. 

I'd call it artistic license, sell it as "parts" (...."if you know how to wire these, find yourself a dial and a receiver..."), and aside from that, not really know what to make of it. 

If it had dial, receiver, and wiring, such that it worked one way or another, then sell it as artistic license and unknown pedigree. 

If that is indeed a "space saver" dial cup mounted to the front of a nondial WE base, then technically that would be a destructive mod.  OTOH, it might also be "making something out of parts when one doesn't have the rest of the parts to finish the project." 

As long as it's not sold in a misleading manner e.g. "original prototype blah blah blah!", I can't find it in me to get all critical of this example.   Others may differ.  I think there's someone missing from this discussion because he'd be sickened by seeing a picture of something he'd consider the congenitally disabled offspring of a deranged mind : - )
GG...wow....Kidphone
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