Author Topic: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"  (Read 14585 times)

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2011, 06:57:17 AM »

Doug, I didn't read GG's posting the same way you did I don't think.  He DID suggest that Jim locate a subset to connect to his phone.  He described a mini network to Jim in the event he found one inside his newly acquired telephone.  He did indicate a Rotatone may work inside a subset if he wanted or needed one (after getting a subset).

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[/quote]Dennis....my reply was more of a General Reply than to any one post. I was trying to stress to our fellow Forum brethren that it is our responsibility to HELP a newbie with question about their old telephones. To lead them in the proper direction, which is to get their old phone working with the original old parts.

 Myself, I do not think it is proper adding $70 rotatones to a phone that will work fine without it. Same with mini networks or chirpy little ringers. Couple of months ago I had to ask the Forum what a rotatone was. I had no clue. Just because Don at OPW uses (sells) them, certainly doesn't make it correct. There is no one who cares less about the integrity of vintage telephones than OPW. Their "creations" are just that, a creation.

 I have been doing just fine making vintage phones work for over three decades without rotatones, mini networks etc.

It is imperative to keep the integrity of the vintage telephone. Everyone has an opinion and I was just stating mine, leave that classic phone a classic phone. Keep that very expensive new sh*t out of it. Just my opinion and not slanted towards what anyone else had written or thinks on the subject.

I am very passionate on this subject....Doug
Kidphone

Offline hemi71x

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2011, 09:07:05 AM »
Picture of it's insides.

Online HarrySmith

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 09:44:56 AM »
OK, so no network installed but there is something I do not recognize. Of course I am not an expert on these, I only have one which I have not even opened yet. Anyone? I tried enlarging the photo but cannot read it. What is the small silver box?
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 10:41:40 AM »
That little gizmo in there was put in to reduce or eliminate radio interference when dialing.  If you were to dial a phone near an AM radio you will hear the pulses over the radio (while the phone is connected to the phone line).  I'm sure it has a more elaborate use than that but I have a few of those that were in phones I picked up along the way.

I'm sure someone with a little better technical knowledge will weigh in on the device.  It can be removed or left there.  The phone will work either way....once it's connected to a proper subset.

Offline Wallphone

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 10:55:41 AM »
Harry, it is just what Dennis said it is, a filter. A 61N filter to be exact. You have probably seen them in wiring diagrams and didn't know it. On this diagram it is in the upper right.
> http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=2140&Itemid=2 <
Doug Pav

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2011, 03:24:20 PM »
On breaking dial tone.  When a phone system is not set up to recognize pulse (rotary) dialing, then dialing the phone will do nothing.  One can dial a million numbers, and you will still hear dial tone.  The fact that it says the call cannot be completed as dialed tells me that it knows you are trying to dial, but somehow cannot make sense of that number.

There could be a number of reasons for this.  First and foremost is that there is no subset in the circuit.  Other reasons could be dial speed setting not correct, and even the filter that has been discussed in these previous posts could be interfering with dialing.  The filter was there so that back in the 1930's when people used AM radios, the pulsing of the dial would cause interference in the radio reception if the radio was close to the phone.  It is totally extra, and can be removed from the circuit with a very minor wiring change.

Now the subset.  Most newcomers to the world of old telephones do not realize that by buying a 102 or 202 or a candlestick type phone without a subset is really buying only a half a phone!

We take the size of telephones for granted these days, but back before the advent of the 302 which came out in 1937, the physical size of the components were too large to fit nicely on a desk or table-top.  They split the circuit up into two piecces.  The phone body (deskset) and the subset.   The deskset, of course went on the desk, but was tethered to the subset which mounted on the wall near the baseboard.  The subset, in turn hooks to the phone line.  The deskset only connects to the phone line through the subset.   All the phone body contains is the hookswitch, dial, handset, and cradle to hang it up on.

The subset actually contains the electrical/electronic items that make the telephone function.  It contains the induction coil and capacitor which are essential for proper matching of the handset to the telephone line and to prevent damage to the receiver and transmitter elements from being subjected to the telephone line voltage directly.

The subset also contains another capacitor and the ringer, which, of course allows the phone to ring.  When the 302 came along, all components were made smaller and were able to fit in one housing.

A ringer box sometimes looks like a subset.  A ringer box is just that a box with a ringer.  They do not have the induction coil and capacitor necessary to make a deskset a complete phone.

Many e-Bay sellers also don't know that a 202 needs a subset, and they will try to put a modular plug on the wires, and they plug it in and get a dial tone, pat themselves on the back and call it a working phone, and try to sell it as such.  NOT.  

So, I appologize for the lengthy and perhaps technical reply, but there it is...

« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 04:48:08 PM by Phonesrfun »
-Bill G

Offline rp2813

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2011, 04:38:48 PM »
Hemi,  I'm in the Bay Area and am an AT&T subscriber.  I am using your same type of D1 phone without any pulse-to-tone converter.  In fact, I have four other types of rotary phones in service around the house, and all dial out fine.

The subset/bell box depicted on the previous page is a later model.  I've attached a shot of what earlier ones can look like, in case you end up with something different than the model pictured.  The type shown below is a 634.  If you want the classic 1930's ringing sound, the older subsets will provide it.   The wiring is fairly easy to translate between the various types of subsets, and there are excellent diagrams available here on the site that you can follow to make sure you get your phone hooked up correctly for dialing out and ringing on incoming calls.  

« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 04:45:32 PM by rp2813 »
Ralph

Offline hemi71x

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2011, 05:22:27 PM »
Another question for you guys today, if i may.

I got the "subset" box this afternoon, and now i need to find out who can sell me a cord from the box, to plug into a modern telephone port in the wall?
Got some cut wires in the box when it was taken out from it's original location.
It's a 634 subset, if it makes a difference.
Thank's.

Offline hemi71x

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2011, 05:27:46 PM »
Forgot to enclose a photo of the subset that i have.

Offline Kenny C

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2011, 05:30:01 PM »
Are those three black wires cut?
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Offline hemi71x

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2011, 05:32:48 PM »
Are those three black wires cut?

Yes, they are.

Offline Kenny C

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2011, 05:44:20 PM »
Check your PM.
In memory of
  Marie B.
1926-2010

Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2011, 09:08:55 PM »
Does that subset actually contain two inductor coils?  If so, why?

Larry

Offline hemi71x

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2011, 11:33:45 PM »
Does that subset actually contain two inductor coils?  If so, why?

Larry

Did i buy something unique, different?
I wouldn't know, i'm a newby to all this.
Someone that's up on these things is bound to reply if they keep looking at this posting.
I can learn too from the answers.
I'm going to old rotary telephone college with all this.

Offline bingster

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Re: 1930's telephone that i purchased question? "UPDATE"
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2011, 05:14:50 AM »
That's definitely not a standard subset, but it should be easy to convert it to one.  Simply disconnect any wiring coming from the smaller coil, and tape the ends so they don't come into contact with anything.  Even easier is to remove the smaller coil altogether.  From there, just make sure the subset wiring conforms to standard, such as you see here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=784.0

Check the "634/684" diagram, but note that the connections are in different places.  All the connections are the same, though (if you have a 634).  Although to me, it looks like it has the older sidetone coil, which would make the subset a 534, electrically.

Is the larger coil marked 146A or some other similar number?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 05:23:40 AM by bingster »
= DARRIN =