Author Topic: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone  (Read 3399 times)

Offline TallahasseeTom

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I have built several 102 and 202 phones and have used 634 subset boxes. I recently bought a very nice D1 102 with bullet transmitter and 3 wire lead for box. It has been checked and checked both on the phone and subset box for correctness of wiring. I get a good dial tone but when dialing I get the uptake but the dial tone stays and no number rings. I think it is due to incorrect wiring hookup.  The 534A is old but appears good. The phone is a III 31 and is marked throughout with those numbers on the base and on the E1 handset parts. Dial is original
and in excellent shape.
If anyone has a fix on this it would be appreciated. I can go to a 4 wire and 634 if needed. Thanks.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 12:19:23 PM »
Sounds like the dial pulse springs on the dial are not opening and closing.  could either be improper alignment of the switch pile-up on the back of the dial or the wires going to Y ands BK on the dial are touching.  I would check those things first.
-Bill G

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 12:33:26 PM »
Thanks Bill,

I figured it must be touching wires as I have had that problem once before. Wiring looks good but it does appear perhaps, maybe, the solder points might be just a little large. wires are good and dial seems to be hitting right.  I guess I will have to continue to look at the wiring, something must be not right. Thanks Tom

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 01:15:31 PM »
Tom, welcome to the Forum!

I'm going to just take a stab in the dark about a possible problem.  If the pulse springs are not opening and closing it could also be a result of the pulse pawl being corroded into place.  I am assuming you're talking about a #4 or #5 Western Electric dial.  Recently I repaired a dial with that exact problem.  It appeared to be dialing properly but the pulse pawl was frozen in place, prohibiting it from working against the pulse springs.  There was a shorting of two dial wires too, so it did not have dial tone.

I made a couple videos and posted them to You-tube.  I made them for the benefit of the woman that owns the phone which she sent to me to repair.  Please excuse the basic and tongue-tied narration but you'll see what I am referring to in this first video.  The second clip is after it was cleaned/repaired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdtI0jugyCQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e-T_VswL5U


Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2011, 12:44:38 PM »
Thanks Dennis for the reply. That cleaning job you did on the dial was just amazing. I have worked on this, looked it over for a few hours, set it down for a day and come back, still have the problem. Contacts are really clean. Do not know about this D1 202 E1 with 4H dial but it is the cleanest non-restored phone I have seen. I believe it lived in the dry Texas climate.

Once before I had this problem on another phone and went back and wires were touching.

If I cannot get it going, can I hook up the 3 wire to a 685 or 634 that I have handy, using just the contacts without the black, or does that mesh with the 6 series subset boxes? Would I have to connect with the regular 4 wire? Maybe this could tell me if I have dial/base or subset ringer box problem.

Thanks for the advice.
Tom

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2011, 12:59:04 PM »
You can definitely use the 634 subset without using the black wire.  The 685 is a different story entirely.  That subset is built on technology that is in a model 500 phone and uses a 425-B network as opposed to a straight induction coil and capacitor.  There is a thread on this board addressing hooking a 102 to a 685.  It is not as straight forward as the older subsets.

For now, my take is that it is a wiring issue, or a dial pulse issue.  If you are getting dial tone at all, then the subset is doing its job.   

I do not see where you have actually checked the dial pulse springs for properly opening and closing during dialing.

You might want to post some close-up photos.
-Bill G

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 01:14:58 PM »
Just in case it's a wiring issue, here is how the inside of the 102 should be wired.

Handset:
Red to R on the dial
Black to BK on the dial
White to W on the dial

Line cord:
Red to R on the dial
Yellow to Y on the hookswitch
Green to GN on the hookswitch

2 jumper wires:
One jumper from W on the hookswitch to BB on the dial
A second jumper from BK on the hookswitch to Y on the dial


Inside the subset, the desk set cord from the phone should be connected as follows:
Red to R on the induction coil
Yellow to L2/Y
Green to GN on the induction coil

The line cord going to the wall should be connected as follows:
Red to L1
Green to L2/Y

Hope this helps
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 01:19:17 PM by Phonesrfun »
-Bill G

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2011, 01:43:23 PM »
Thanks Bill and others for the posts. I have printed out the diagrams and will take them out to workshop to once again, look over the connections. I call myself being familiar with the hook up patterns but maybe there is an error there. The dial looks good but it could be off. There is no corrosion or rusting whatsoever. All is very clean.
I will take one more try with the 534 and if that does not work use a 634 or 684 with the 3 wire and see what happens. Thanks again.

Tom

Offline rdelius

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2011, 01:49:26 PM »
Another possibility. I have found both dials and hook switches that have been damaged by high voltage or lightning. There might not be any visible damage. An ohmmeter would show the damage. Unscrewing the switch pileups screws that hold them together might show carbon from the damage.The insulating sleeve or spacers could have carbon on them.
Robby

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 03:52:17 PM »
Thank you for that advice. If you will, please tell me what ohm readings I should be getting across the various points, I realize there are several involved on the dial. The ones I see are very clean.  I have read about the various ohm readings on the subset but have no knowledge about what I should be getting on the dial. Thank You

Tom

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 04:47:15 PM »
Bill, I got the D1 working with an extra 684 I had here. all seems well except for the old bullet transmitter.

Looking at the 534, I sense the wiring is correct, but the person prior to me put on a newer bell set, 1956. It is wired to L1 & L2 connections on the coil. Is that correct?

Perhaps I have just a worn out 534.
Thank You, again.
Tom

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2011, 06:26:28 PM »
Bill, I got the D1 working with an extra 684 I had here. all seems well except for the old bullet transmitter.

Looking at the 534, I sense the wiring is correct, but the person prior to me put on a newer bell set, 1956. It is wired to L1 & L2 connections on the coil. Is that correct?

Perhaps I have just a worn out 534.
Thank You, again.
Tom

When you say "Bell set", do you mean they put a ringer directly across L1 and L2, with no capacitor in between?  If there is no capacitor in series with the ringer coils, they could be holding the line and not allowing you to dial out.  If that is the case, sthen simply disconnecting one of the ringer wires will tell you for sure.  Try taking one of the ringer wires off and then go off hook and dial a number.

-Bill G

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 08:08:07 PM »
Tom:

I am just wondering if you had any further luck.

-Bill
-Bill G

Offline TallahasseeTom

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Re: 102 D1/E1 phone connected to 534A subset cannot lose dial tone
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2011, 10:57:25 PM »
Yes, I rechecked and sure enough it was an error in wiring. That is fixed. Now, I get no ringing from the 534 with calls coming in. Had one second of ring and then none. This must be a ringer set of bells/coils off of a 302 perhaps. it is wired into L1 and L2.  I will look at it again and maybe get it up and going. If anyone has a tip on the 534 not ringing I will appreciate your suggestions.
Got the bullet transmitter to work and it does very well much to my surprise. This west Texas phone has the original dial plate on it and I think everything else is original. Now back to the wiring, again!

Thanks