Author Topic: Automatic Electric Dial Identification  (Read 22709 times)

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2013, 08:00:42 PM »
Don't know what the model number is for this phone.  This is the 3rd one for me now.  One is a no-dial, two have dials.  The dial on this one wouldn't spin, so I took it apart, cleaned and adjusted it so it works nice now.  This dial is a little odd - the back seems to be from a model 23 since it has the mounting screws on the back.  From there, everything else seems to be from a very early type 11.  The porcelain number plate does not have the hooks on the back, and under the plate I found the original cardboard number plate.  I'm guessing they removed the glass cover and replaced it with the porcelain.  The porcelain plate does not have the hooks on the back, and instead has a little nub that prevents it from spinning around.  It has a retainer ring to hold it in place, much like the retainer ring on the WE dials.  The is a date written on the back, 6-20-23 which coincides nicely with the type being 23.  Also, the fingerwheel is the smaller type - a hair less than 2 3/4 which is associated with the early dials, not the type 23.  

I'm wondering if this type 23 dial was built up using type 11 parts.  That would explain the round card ring that was on it also.  I replaced the round ring with the mercedes ring since it looks better that way on the smaller fingerwheel.  

First picture is phone as purchased, the 2nd is after I replaced the ring.  
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 08:37:28 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2013, 08:07:17 PM »
Here's my other one.  I like this one better - has the mercedes dial with the glass cover over the cardboard number plate, and the letter "A" in the receiver arm.
Dave

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2013, 08:50:51 PM »
That is an interesting one wds. I came close to buying that phone but once again fell asleep at the switch and once I woke up, it was on its way to your place! (Story of my life on ebaY)

Who knows if it was refurbished with some newer parts or was made from various parts right from the beginning. Is the 1923 date stamp on the back ink? Could have been dated at a refurb then? A date on an AE item is a collectors item in itself!

My Type 11 dial also might have a retainer ring to hold the porcelain plate in place as I can't see what is holding it together otherwise. And I ca nsee what looks like a paper numberplate under the porcelain plate though it may be plain paper to provide a softer backing for the porcelain plate. One day I will open it up.

Terry

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2013, 09:02:46 PM »
Your right - I've never seen a date on an AE product.  Date is in pencil.  2nd picture shows the retainer ring, which is held on place by that piece with 3 arms - which is held in place by the large gear that is held in place by the fingerwheel, which is held in place by the spring on the back of the dial..............
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:43:23 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2013, 09:46:46 PM »
I mis-spoke on the first paragraph.  There aren't mounting screws holes on the back of the dial - this dial uses the adapter ring to mount the dial.  Also the three mounting brackets on the back have one bracket with screw holes, and the two top brackets have the nubs.  That makes this a pure type 11 dial.  The 6-20-23 date on the back must be a refurb date?  That would better explain the porcelain number plate and the round card holder.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:52:45 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2013, 10:21:53 PM »
Yes, my type 11 has one screw and two "nubs". Rather than using 3 screws in the 3 mounting tabs they put the "nubs" on two of the mounting tabs as though they were screws protruding from the tab that slip into the matching screw holes and then a single screw finishes off the installation. So from what you have seen, only the type 11 had that?

All of the earlier Big Strowger 11 digit dials that I have seen have pencil writing on the back as well. 

Terry

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2013, 09:46:39 AM »
Yes, I believe the type 11 can be identified by the two nubs and one screw hole.  Later the dial had screw holes in all three brackets.  What I don't know yet is what defines the type 18 dial.  The type 23 is easy to identify with the larger fingerwheel, and the mounting screw holes directly in the back of the dial.  So little information about the Mercedes dial makes it hard to piece together a timeline.  There are also different fingerwheels.  I have 5 different fingerwheels that I've seen on the Mercedes dials.  The first four wheels are all nickel plated.  The last one is the type 23 that always came in black.  First one is an odd one, has the patent on the front - don't know what it's application was.  2nd one has the patent on the front.  The third one no longer has the patent date.  For a while I associated this one with the type 18, but I'm not sure.  The 4th has a blank fingerwheel.  I assume this dial was used on non-ae equipment, much like the WE parts that had the "w" when used on non-bell equipment.  The 5th is the type 23 fingerwheel.  The same in appearance as the 3rd one, but larger in size to properly accommodate the round card holder.  

Also note four different fingerstops in these pictures.  I found five different fingerstops in my pile of Mercedes dials.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 10:03:12 AM by wds »
Dave

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2013, 12:26:42 PM »
With all the refurbishing of equipment as well as mid production improvements and changes that went on it is likely difficult to pin down exactly what model dials came with what parts.

How is the Type 23 fingerwheel larger? Is the diameter of this fingerwheel larger than the case of the dial unlike the others?

Are the first 4 FW's pictured flat where as the last one is like the later AE metal FW's that are stamped from thinner metal that is pushed through at the fingerholes to make it seem even thicker and therefore more comfortable against your finger when turning it.

Dave: Since this has pretty much turned into a continuation of the AE Dial Identification discussion, do you mind wds if I add this topic onto that one (merge them)?
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5867.0

I have asked Gary G what early dials he has so we can possibly do some more comparing. If anyone else on the forum has any input or pictures of these early Pre Type 24 dials please let us know what you have.

Thanks for all the pictures and detail Dave. I have never known much at all about this generation of AE dials but am learning.

Terry
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 12:38:22 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2013, 01:54:08 PM »
Yes, feel free to merge.  The type 11 fingerwheel is about 2"11/16.  The type 23 fingerwheel is 2 13/16".  While the increase of 1/8" may not seem like much, it allowed for the round card ring to fit without interfering with the finger holes, and also allowed for a larger finger hole.  I can't see any difference in the thickness of the fingerwheel, but maybe I will take some of my dials to work and make a more accurate measurement with a micrometer.  The early 2 1/2" North dial is 2 5/8" across the fingerwheel.  Then north came out with the same dial in a 3" version, then came out with the modern 3" dial.  Kellogg had their early version of the Mercedes, however I believe it was a full 3".  I don't have one to measure - maybe someone with that early dial could confirm the dimensions?  SC did not have an early dial.  
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 02:08:45 PM by AE_Collector »
Dave

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2013, 02:01:32 PM »
For comparison, the 2 1/2" North, and a 3" North.  
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 02:09:42 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2013, 02:07:43 PM »
Oops, I didn't think to check if you were on line Dave. I just merged the two topics while you were posting to one of them. Hope I didn't mess you up! Quite amazing that more things don't "Blow Up" on the forum when something like this happens.

What I was thinking re the thickness of the fingerwheels was that some of the early ones were solid metal with fingerholes punched in like some of the NECo & WECo FW's but looking again it looks as though all of the AE FW's have fingerholes pressed in to make thicker sides to the opening giving the impression that the metal is thicker.

Terry
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 02:12:19 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline wds

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2013, 07:38:11 PM »
I finally brought my micrometer home and measured several AE dials.

Type 11 - blank finger wheel #1.  2.75" fingerwheel, .472 Fingerhole, .084 thick, 2.86 back o.d.
Type 11 - blank fw #2. 2.75" fw, .463 fingerhole, .086 thick, 2.86 back
Type 11 - inscribed, no patent.  2.73 fw, .465 fingerhole, .082 thick, 2.86 back
Type 23 - 2.83" fw, .492 fingerhole, .082 thick, 2.85 back.
Type 24 - 3.0 fw, .494 fingerhole, .14 thick, 2.999 back.

The type 11's are fairly consistent.  The type 23 has a larger fingerwheel, back is the same as the 11.  
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 07:42:20 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2013, 09:56:36 PM »
Thanks for the numbers Dave.

Terry

Offline BDM

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2014, 05:47:39 PM »
Gents, can anyone supply any info on the differences of these to supposed AE number plates? Really I wonder if one is older than the other but I understand that question may not be answered so easily. Notice the differences especially with the 1 6 and 9. Plus the font is thicker on the left plate. No markings on the backs of these plates. Both came off AE40 sets and were very dirty. Indicating they had been on these dials for some time.


--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

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Re: Automatic Electric Dial Identification
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2014, 08:54:32 PM »
No knowledge here Brian other than the thought that it probably was just a font change. I have never looked at them that close before. Will have to check some more of mine out.

Terry