Author Topic: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113  (Read 4081 times)

Offline Doug Rose

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Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« on: December 11, 2011, 09:13:58 PM »

Anybody see this today? Went for $85.....Doug

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170740310113
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Offline wds

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 08:27:01 AM »
I watched this one, but did know quite what to make of it.  Couldn't decide if it was authentic or some novelty item.
Dave

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 04:04:38 PM »
I watched this one, but did know quite what to make of it.  Couldn't decide if it was authentic or some novelty item.
I'm guessing on novelty....Doug
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Offline mariepr

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2011, 06:45:20 PM »
I notice a couple of things.  If the photos have not been inverted the phone has been re-assembled for a left hand writer.  The metallic rosettes were probably stuck on to cover holes made for who knows what reason.

Second, the transmitter cup is very small.  I looks like my WE 20BK with the 331W transmitter.  When I posted photos in the ATCA photo page (see Oct 2007) I was told it didn't appear in any WE catalog and that WE would never mount an F1 transmitter like they did in mine.  Put another way, I had a cob job.  Yet last year a "20BK" showed up on ebay (don't remember the seller) but he would not post any images of the transmitter inside (at least not uploaded to ebay).  If the phone recently sold is also a 20BK, this would make the third phone of this type.  
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 01:27:55 PM by mariepr »

Offline mariepr

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 01:45:39 PM »
I took another look at the images in the listing, and I'm almost certain that it is indeed a 20BK.  The image of the transmitter face could have a "331W" marking.  Also, the contact post has a spacer of about 3/4in on the bottom just like mine to accommodate fitting into a longer shaft tube.  Why the shaft had to be longer is something I don't get but it is.  Unfortunately the seller didn't unscrew the mouthpiece as that would have hinted at what type of transmitter was behind it.  WE mouthpieces fit the faceplate perfectly.   IF 20BKs were made with F1 transmitters a mouthpiece would not have been needed but they certainly would have looked naked without one.   Were they prototypes that eventually lead to the "bulldog" design?  The bulldog allowed F1s to be used without having to replace "standard" transmitter cups. 

This doesn't look like a WE receiver.  My best guess is that somebody acquired this phone through non-Bell channels and did some weekend handiwork to make an extension phone. 

Don't remember what I paid for mine (purchased beause I thought it looked cute) so whatever the amount was it could not have been unusually high or low for a non-dial stick. 

Offline Owain

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 04:53:36 AM »
The metallic rosettes were probably stuck on to cover holes made for who knows what reason.

Lampholder and flex  :'(

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 10:04:35 AM »
I took another look at the images in the listing, and I'm almost certain that it is indeed a 20BK.  The image of the transmitter face could have a "331W" marking.  Also, the contact post has a spacer of about 3/4in on the bottom just like mine to accommodate fitting into a longer shaft tube.  Why the shaft had to be longer is something I don't get but it is.  Unfortunately the seller didn't unscrew the mouthpiece as that would have hinted at what type of transmitter was behind it.  WE mouthpieces fit the faceplate perfectly.   IF 20BKs were made with F1 transmitters a mouthpiece would not have been needed but they certainly would have looked naked without one.   Were they prototypes that eventually lead to the "bulldog" design?  The bulldog allowed F1s to be used without having to replace "standard" transmitter cups. 

This doesn't look like a WE receiver.  My best guess is that somebody acquired this phone through non-Bell channels and did some weekend handiwork to make an extension phone. 

Don't remember what I paid for mine (purchased beause I thought it looked cute) so whatever the amount was it could not have been unusually high or low for a non-dial stick. 
Marie....can you post some pics of yours? This does not look in anyway to me like a real stick. Looks like it was a lamp and the black curly handset cord is an alarm. Rosettes. Please post some pictures....Doug
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Offline mariepr

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 08:13:48 PM »
Doug, I had posted images as mine was opened up in October 2007 - link here.

I'm seeing similarities between my 20BK and the one recently listed. 

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 09:28:32 AM »
Marie....very interesting. I would have bet the house this was a fake. I have to go through my junk box (s) as I remember I have (had) one that looked sorta like this. I thought it was a joke. By chance does yours have a screw on the very top of the shaft. As I remember, mine had one. I will go digging Saturday. Good info and great pics.......Doug
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Offline mariepr

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 07:35:28 PM »
This little phone is a real paradox.  There is no referecence to it any an WE catalogue.  Yet the "20BK" and "331W" fit the WE naming conventions.  The transmitter mounting, if it's not WE, was done far more carefully and professionally than one would normally expect from a weekend cob job.  (I once received a 102 where the E1 handset had a soldered and wired T1 transmitter held in place with pink PlayDough!  You can't make this stuff up!)

Mine does not have a screw at the top of the shaft.  And I cannot figure out why the shaft is taller than a typical WE stick. 

You're right - at first this would scream "fake".  But it's crafted too well and why would somebody fake a non-existant model? 

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2011, 08:06:50 AM »
I looked high and low for through my junk boxes yesterday. I found the base and shaft with the screw hole in it, BUT I could not find the mouthpiece and harness. I must have used it with a different MP and tossed the 20BK MP with out a thought. Bummer....Doug
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 12:36:08 PM by Doug Rose »
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Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 12:33:29 PM »
Found Mine!!! Definitely the hack I thought it was. Nothing like your great find. I had removed the harness and hookswitch for another project. ....Doug
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 12:36:34 PM by Doug Rose »
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Offline wds

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 12:39:22 PM »
That look like the receiver end of the handset, not the transmitter end?  Anyway, pretty clever way to convert a candlestick to a more modern transmitter/receiver.  You should put that on Ebay as a super super rare candlestick and see what happens.

Dave

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Antique Solid Brass Candlestick Telephone 170740310113
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 12:45:40 PM »
Aw Dave....you stole my thunder!!!  ;D
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