Author Topic: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set  (Read 2175 times)

Offline Dick42

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Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« on: January 21, 2012, 04:35:50 PM »
The WE Co 302 set I just received has an B1a Ringer with an open winding.  What's the best way to repair or replace this?

I'm a retired phone guy that still tinkers with phones and audio, so I'm OK with a soldering iron, etc., so I thought there might be a good chance I could find the open fairly easily and reconnect the ends....

Apparently a replacement will run in the $30 range (nearly what I paid for the 302), so it seems worth asking about, first.

Thanks!!

Dick

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 04:39:55 PM by Dick42 »

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 06:33:24 PM »
Dick:  

Welcome to the forum:

I think you just have to look very carefully at it to see if it is a case of the wire coming loose from one of the connections to the fine coil wire of the coils.  Hopefully it is not a wire that starts at the inside, but rather the outer winding of the coil if it is a solder job.

If it is an open somewhere deep within the windings of the coil or if it is a connection that broke off where the wire enters the inside windings, you have a problem.  In that case, you would have to carefully unwind the coil wire onto a spindle of some sort, repair it, and carefully wind it back.  That kind of makes $30 for a new ringer look like a good price!  :)  

Personally, I wouldn't even mess with it at that point.

I am sure someone may have a B1A for less than $30.  I don't have any spares, but someone must.

Anyway, give the simple approach a shot and see what you can see.  You may even need to use a magnifier to get a good look.



-Bill G

Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 07:59:18 PM »
Dick,

Welcome!  Don't pay $30 for a replacement ringer.  Someone here probably has some to spare, or you can contact Steve Hilsz (http://www.phonesurplus.com/).  I am sure that he would charge less than $10.  If you ask for one without the gongs, it may be even cheaper.  The first thing to do though is to confirm that the coil is really open and that there is not simply a bad solder connection or bad crimp of one of the spades.

Larry

Offline Dick42

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 12:37:36 PM »
Many thanks for the tips, guys!

I'll follow them and let you know what I find.  Until recently I didn't think the ringer would come out of it's mounting, but I've seen the pictures here to show it will..... With that insight and your tips, I'm on the way again!   

What a great place this is!!

Offline Dick42

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 01:17:09 PM »
That did it! I've just heard that special sound I haven't heard in years.... a B1a ringer!

Having not removed it before, I didn't follow its leads correctly in my first look at this set.... but now I've discovered one of the ringer leads was not terminated correctly... so I put it where it belonged, and IT WORKED!

Thanks to this site and your encouragement, this is the happy end to another success story!  Plus, I've bookmarked Steve's site for future reference; thanks!

Many thanks to you all, especially you, Bill and Larry!!!

Cheers!!

Dick
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 05:08:02 PM by Dick42 »

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2015, 12:14:46 AM »
How often did these bells go bad? I have a WE 444 that I use on the patio during the summer and the ringer was intermitten last year and now doesn't ring at all..... were the windings on these ringers poor quality versus the C4A ringers? or is it just age.....
John

Offline DavePEI

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 08:10:47 AM »
I have had a couple of them open - fortunately one had broken off at the solder joint - the other about 1/2 inch away from it. I was able to unwind enough to re-connect it. Both ring fine...

Dave
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unbeldi

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 08:19:54 AM »
How often did these bells go bad? I have a WE 444 that I use on the patio during the summer and the ringer was intermitten last year and now doesn't ring at all..... were the windings on these ringers poor quality versus the C4A ringers? or is it just age.....
Well, the fact that there are still so many of them operating very well, pretty much like they did 60-75 years ago, should answer that question to a high degree. But problems do occur and need to be diagnosed case by case, although I don't recall having had many problems with those ringers. If you had one outside, there is always the increased risk of corrosion from condensation or humidity. Gradual changes in performance indicate gradual deterioration of something, perhaps contact resistance.  Remove the spade terminals from the screw posts and clean the metal surfaces.  Measure resistances, a good B1 ringer should have a value of ~4600 Ω across both coils. Deviations of more than 10% from that value could indicate real problems, but I don't recall having seen such large deviation from the norm on any B-type.

The other component that needs checking is the 0.5 F ringing capacitor. If the set is exposed to heat outside, the paraffin wax inside these condensers can easily melt and leak out. The melting temperature is probably no higher than 120 F, easily exceeded by solid objects in the sun. I have seen them leak, just sitting exposed by the window. This could cause excessive DC leakage and introduce a magnetic bias in the ringer, or perhaps even demagnetizing it over a period of time if the polarity happens to be right.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 08:22:48 AM by unbeldi »

Offline DavePEI

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Re: Open Winding in B1a Ringer for 302 set
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 10:07:09 AM »
It is my take that the longevity of these is effected by both humidity and environment. I have had two bad ones as previously mentioned. Both were on Maritime phones, where we have a fair bit of salt AND humidity in the air during the summers, which may indeed cause corrosion and increase the rate of failure.

However, it is still a very small percentage - they are quite reliable.

Dave
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