Author Topic: Payphone conversion  (Read 8669 times)

Offline Rodger M.

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Payphone conversion
« on: January 25, 2012, 10:57:53 PM »
Hi Guys
This is my first time posting, so I'm not sure of rules or ediquette.
My Question?
I recently bought a phone booth with a payphone in it.
The payphone is a 120B-GTE Automatic Electric "Fortress"
It is a touch tone and supposedly was converted to work on a land line.
Can this phone be converted to the earlier rotary version?
Does anybody have a parts lead or know anythiung about this style of phone
Thanks

Offline dpaynter1066

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2012, 12:33:38 AM »

These were made in the 70's  and would likely be hard to find Rotary replacement parts for, Most will be touchtone.

the reference does say they did come in rotary though. Easier to buy a rotary payphone on that auction place than retrofit a tt back to rotary.  Might want to try phonecoinc and see if they have any parts.

http://www.phworld.org/payphone/ae.htm

Some GTE Parts

http://www.tullc.us/category.php?id_category=5

Offline Rodger M.

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2012, 02:45:34 AM »
Thanks for the insight.
I guess next step is "does anybody know how to make a payphone work like a normal phone.
My payphone has been attempted to convert but it does not work?

Offline dpaynter1066

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2012, 03:20:12 PM »
You could use a coinless "Armored Phone Circuit Board" for a single slot Payphone. 

 http://www.payphone.com/Armored-Phone-Circuit-Board.html

Most likely, you can use your existing keypad with this board.

If you want it to work as a payphone and dont mind spending more money, then Intellicall has some obsolete Ultratel boards that arent as dear as the newer ones would be. You would need to buy a conversion kit to go with it, maybe a couple of hundred bucks versus fifty bucks for the coinless board.

Offline DavePEI

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 08:24:35 PM »
Thanks for the insight.
I guess next step is "does anybody know how to make a payphone work like a normal phone.
My payphone has been attempted to convert but it does not work?
On a 120, all you should have to do is connect the line to L1 and L2 or if there is a jack installed inside, to it, and it should work - unless it has other problems. No conversion is necessary. If you still have problems with it, swap the wires on L1 and L2 to reverse the polarity.

The only thing is this will make it work like a normal phone - it requires a pay line to collect coins.

Photo Below: WE 1D2 left, GTE/AE 120B on right. Both are the same in that NO CONVERSION IS REQUIRED to use as a home phone. If they have been messed with, all bets are off.

Dave
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 07:51:54 AM by DavePEI »
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Offline G-Man

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 09:50:38 PM »
Thanks for the insight.
I guess next step is "does anybody know how to make a payphone work like a normal phone.
My payphone has been attempted to convert but it does not work?
On a 120, all you should have to do is connect the line to L1 and L2 or if there is a jack installed inside, to it, and it should work - unless it has other problems. No conversion is necessary. If you still have problems with it, swap the wires on L1 and L2 to reverse the polarity.

The only thing is this will make it work like a normal phone - it requires a pay line to collect coins.

Dave

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Offline dpaynter1066

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 09:54:16 AM »
Thats interesting, so it works out of the box without jumpering or unjumpering such like the three slots needed.

Offline DavePEI

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 10:00:52 AM »
Thats interesting, so it works out of the box without jumpering or unjumpering such like the three slots needed.
Yep! Even the NE Centurion is the same, just requiring tip and line. Now, they won't work as pay phones - in other words, won't count coinage inserted, but will operate as a home phone. (as long as you have one with the original boards and wiring - if an aftermarket board has been put it, i.e;. a microprocessor board, or if it has been previously messed with, all bets are off.)

On some, if you continue to put coinage in even though you don't need it, it will eventually jam up the escrow area - solution to that one is to tie the coin relay in with the vane pointing in whatever direction you wan the coins to go, i.e. coin return or coin box. You use a nylon wire tie to hold it in the operated position - this locks the vane in the direction chosen..

In the museum, I choose to aim the vane to direct the coins to the coin return - that way people get their money back, but I could chose to bank coins put into the phone by aiming them at the coin box. Of course, there is no need to insert any money, but people will be people,  and they do anyway! :)

Dave
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 10:39:00 AM by DavePEI »
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Offline ESalter

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 10:29:02 AM »
Dave is exactly right.  All of those hundreds of single slot payphones I've seen for sale that claim to be "converted for home use" or "converted to work on any landline" only means they tied the coin relay(I usually see it done with lacing cord) so coins just drop straight through into the cash box.  The good thing is for a collector that sees a nice phone that's been "converted" all you need to do to un-convert it is cut the tie off.

---Eric

Offline DavePEI

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 10:33:06 AM »
Dave is exactly right.  All of those hundreds of single slot payphones I've seen for sale that claim to be "converted for home use" or "converted to work on any landline" only means they tied the coin relay(I usually see it done with lacing cord) so coins just drop straight through into the cash box.  The good thing is for a collector that sees a nice phone that's been "converted" all you need to do to un-convert it is cut the tie off.

---Eric
In addition to what Eric said, avoid any phone which has had the relay removed. If you ever wish to use the phone with a payphone controller, you will have to find a new one and restore wiring before you can use it with the controller.

There is absolutely no reason to remove the coin relay even in a 3 slot. Often this is done simply to have a place to mount a ringer.

Remember, conservative and reversable conversions are always best. If you want a ringer in a phone without an internal ringer, use an external ringer, plug the phone into it, and the ringer to the line. That leaves the phone original.

Dave
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 10:34:52 AM by DavePEI »
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 10:58:19 AM »
Can single slot phones be used with a payphone controller?
 I was under the impression the controllers only worked with 3 slot phones.

This is the controller I have. This auction listing is chock full of good payphone info.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coin-Controller-Your-Antique-3-Slot-Payphone-/300838538729

If the link doesn't work the item # is 300838538729

These are very nice simulators, They also make a nice diagnostic tool when you are trying to get a molested payphone wired correctly.

Jim
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Offline DavePEI

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 01:35:10 PM »
Can single slot phones be used with a payphone controller?
 I was under the impression the controllers only worked with 3 slot phones.

This is the controller I have. This auction listing is chock full of good payphone info.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coin-Controller-Your-Antique-3-Slot-Payphone-/300838538729

If the link doesn't work the item # is 300838538729

These are very nice simulators, They also make a nice diagnostic tool when you are trying to get a molested payphone wired correctly.

Jim
Hi Jim:

Yes they will, but if you read down Stan's description of the eBay controller, it would have to be an original phone, with the original voltage coin relay in it, and then, still the phone would have to be considerably modified in order to work. Later phones (i.e. microprocessor controlled ones) have different voltage coils in them, but then, most of them can be set to operate without charge if you program their rate tables, so a controller isn't necessary. (Don't ask me - I haven''t done it, but a couple on the forum have done so).

One's best bet for one of these phones would be to design their own controller which provided the collect pulse at the correct voltage.

But the way, I look at it, it isn't worth it. If you want to use it as a piggy bank, or let people play with it, they can insert coins - it won't hurt, and they can still make free  calls with these.

I have a funny story related to this. Some years ago, I set up am MD 9021 superman booth in front of the museum, and put a black Centurion in it. So people wouldn't put up my phone bill, I didn't connect it to my line. At first, I left it lighted, and had signs in it that it was for display only.

The following spring, I cleaned the booth and washed the phone and glass to get the winter's dust off it. As I cleaned the phone, I discovered over $6 in change in it. Despite the signs, people had been trying to use the phone, and I made a killing over the winter - enough to pay for the power taken to light the booth!

Since then, the light has stayed off, but I still occasionally find coins in it!

Dave

« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 12:59:05 AM by DavePEI »
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2013, 11:20:05 AM »
Thanks Dave,
I didn't realise that. Now I guess I need to go thru my SS payphones and test them with the simulator. 
I don't really collect payphones , but I think i have around 13 of them.
Thanks,
Jim
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Offline DavePEI

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 11:57:37 AM »
Thanks Dave,
I didn't realise that. Now I guess I need to go thru my SS payphones and test them with the simulator.  
I don't really collect payphones , but I think i have around 13 of them.
Thanks,
Jim

Hi Jim:

What Stan states is:

"Single-Slot Payphones:
 
You can connect the controller to 'some' single-slot payphones.
 
However, you might not want to.
___
 
 'Single-slot' is a generic term for many types of payphones.
 
Originally there were only three manufacturers of single-slots.
 
Western Electric, Northern Electric and GTE.
 
These payphones required the installation of a coin telephone line from the central office.
 
___
 
Then came single-slot COCOTS. (COCOT stands for 'Customer Owned Coin Operated Telephone').
 
COCOTS were designed to be connected to common, subscriber telephone lines.
They didn't require dedicated payphone lines.
 
There were literally dozens of manufacturers of single-slot COCOTS including AT&T and ITT.
 
___
 
Each of these single-slot COCOTS used a different type of coin relay.
 
This was sometimes done to circumvent patents.
 
These coin relays had electromagnets with various types of coils. Some were designed to operate from 12V DC, others needed voltages as high as 100V DC.
 
Some coin relays required a high voltage pulse, others required constant voltage to trigger.
 
___
 
Even if your single slot is a very early type that uses the standard single coil coin relay
 (that was also used in 3-slot payphones), it will be necessary to rewire the single-slot to make the coin relay function with the controller.
 
Doing that will destroy the authenticity, intelligence (function of the totalizer), and personality of the single-slot.
 
That's a pity!
___
 
When you deposited a coin in a 3-slot payphone the value (nickel, dime or quarter) was determined mechanically by the coin gauge and the coin track.
 
When you deposit coins into any single-slot the value of the coins is determined electronically by the Totalizer.
 
The coins all take basically the same route and end up in the same place, in the hopper of the single-slot.
 
Since the payphone's Totalizer and the controller have no way of communicating with one another, the only information the controller can receive from the payphone is that a deposited coin has tripped the coin vane and is sitting in the hopper.
 
The controller will then allow a call to be made regardless if a nickel, dime or a quarter has been deposited.
___
 
In my opinion connecting the controller to a single-slot payphone isn't worth doing.
 It destroys the payphone's authenticity and makes it function in a way that isn't logical or close to being historically correct.
 
However, that's up to you.
 
I will include instructions on modifying a Western Electric single slot so it will function with the controller if the winner of the auction requests the information."


So, I gather from the above, that best case scenario, is that the totalizer won't function, and that any coin that trips the switch will allow a call. So whether it is worth the trouble is anybody's guess. It might be interesting if you emailed Stan and got his instructions for using with a single slot to see if it might be worthwhile.

To my way of thinking is this isn't much of an advantage over using it without a controller, and of course you would have to be sure that the trigger voltage wouldn't be too much for the relay.

Dave
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 12:08:27 PM by DavePEI »
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: Payphone conversion
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2013, 04:44:14 PM »
 Dave,
I have some dumb WE Singleslots, It  might be fun to convert one of them.
I will check with Stan regarding the mod.
Thanks,
Jim
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