Author Topic: Wiring 233G to subset  (Read 19534 times)

Offline coors

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Wiring 233G to subset
« on: March 06, 2012, 08:01:48 PM »
Another question about wiring. I am looking to wire my we233g to a network and ringer from a 500 set.It had a network attached to the coin shoot that I removed.I have looked at the wire diagrams but can not make heads or tails of it.I need to know proper places for wires and which 5 go to subset etc, and there placement to the stack switch and hand set.
Sorry for the drawn out question but when you see the mess insde you will know.
http://s1070.photobucket.com/albums/u486/1coors/  see pics here.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 08:16:25 PM »
I have the connections at home, and I can send them on a little later tonight.  The one big question is whether you are going to wire this as an extension phone or are you going to build or buy a coin phone simulator/controller?  The simulator/controller is a device that you hook the pay phone up to which will take and/or return coins based on whether the call goes through or not.

Since you say that it had a network connected to the coin chute, I take it your phone is missing the coin relay.  If you have no coin relay, you can't put a simulator on it.

So, I take it, you are going to just want it to function as an extension phone?

-Bill G

Offline coors

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 08:24:23 PM »
Thanks for the reply Bill.Yes for the time being I am just using as an extension phone. Some time down the road (when I can find a coin hopper and relay) I might concider a controller.
Thanks Dan

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 09:15:00 PM »
I forgot I have a meeting to go to tonight.  I am on the west coast, and Pacific Time.  I will be back about 8:30 or 9pm tonight my time.

I can then dig out the diagram for you.

-Bill G

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 12:23:43 AM »
OK, assuming you are using a 500 set as a network, make sure all the hookswitch contacts for the old 500 have been disconnected from the 425 network inside the 500 base.

The network inside the 500 base will be labeled 425 and then a dash letter, I.E. 425-B, E or some other suffix.  I will refer to that network as a 425.


Line cord wires:
Connect the red line cord wire to L2 of the 425 network, and the green line cord wire to  L1 (Same connections as a model 500 phone.

Ringer wires:
Connect the red ringer wire to L2 on the 425; connect the black ringer wire to L1 on the 425; connect the slate ringer wire to K on the 425, and connect the slate/red ringer wire to A on the 425.  This is the same wiring that the original 500 has too.

Place a short jumper wire between L1 on the 425 and C on the 425.

Payphone handset (Assumes this is a G handset with 4 wires...Black, Red, White, White)
Red handset wire and one White handset wire to TR on the black terminal strip at the top of the lower housing.  (Either white wire will do)
Black handset wire to T on the black terminal strip at the top of the lower housing
Other white handset wire will go to terminal GN on the payphone hookswitch.


Connections between the subset (500 model phone with 425 network) (5 wires)

Wire 1 between L2 on the 425 network and terminal Y on the payphone hookswitch
Wire 2 between RR on the 425 network and terminal R on the payphone hookswitch
Wire 3 between R on the 425 network and TR on the black terminal strip at the top of the lower housing
Wire 4 between B on the 425 network and T on the black terminal strip at the top of the lower housing
Wire 5 between GN on the 425 network and terminal W on the payphone hookswitch.

Make sure there is a jumper between terminals BBX and BB on the payphone hookswitch

That should do it.  All this assumes, of course, that nobody has messed around with the dial wiring, or the configuration of the transfer contact points between the upper and lower housing.  If that is the case, then there will be more work involved.

Also, when replacing the upper housing, always do so with the phone off hook, otherwise the flimsy little brass tab that controls the bent coin release can get bent and break off.

Good luck.


-Bill G

Offline coors

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2012, 07:05:50 AM »
Thanks Bill
That makes alot more sense, only thing different in my phone is the upper terminal strip is missing. So which wires would be coming up to it for the wires to join to from the hand set?
Sorry for all the questions.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 12:14:11 PM »
Any old terminal strip will do.  You only need two terminals, so a cheapie from Radio Shack will do just fine. 

To one terminal you will connect the red and one white from the handset, and the other you connect the black from the handset.  Please see my post from yesterday that lays this all out.

The connection that has the black handset wire becomes terminal "T" and will have Wire number 4 connected to it.  The connection that has the red and white handset wire will become terminal TR and will have wire number 3 connected to it.  Again, refer to yesterday's post.

I had one other thought about the model 500 phone you are planning on using for a subset.  If it is an older type that has some of the hookswitch wires soldered to the 425 network terminals, then I should give you some additional instructions on how to deal with that situation.  Let me know.
-Bill G

Offline coors

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 06:51:53 PM »
Sorry I misunderstood those connections, The donor phone was a 1979 model.
Thanks again will let you know how it went.

Offline coors

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 08:25:45 PM »
I have it wired up and seems to work fine
Thanks for your help Bill

Offline sebbel

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2012, 11:28:59 PM »
Hi,
I've just rewired my ne233QF according to this and it work but I'm getting really low volume from the phone. Is that something to di with the wires or perhaps a bad subset or receiver.

I suppose everything is possible.
Seb.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 12:11:27 AM »
Could be almost anything.  Can you post a picture of the inside of the phone with te wiring?
-Bill G

Offline dennisjnunes

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 02:28:26 PM »
Hi will a 685A do the job or is there a reason for using a telephone ? I have no idea what a network is or does.  Dennis

Offline poplar1

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 03:26:32 PM »
685A is the right one for a 233G or 234G pay phone.

The network is the part with terminals on top labeled L2, G, L1, K, A, F, RR, C, GN, B, R.

When a 685A is not available, it is possible to use the network and ringer from a 500 set to make the same circuit. Of course, it looks better to have a 685A with a cover.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline dennisjnunes

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2012, 11:24:29 PM »
O.K.  I,ll reword, I'm pretty sure where the network is in the phone, I would like to know what it does or how it helps the phone work and why it is needed? I'm trying to learn. Dennis

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wiring 233G to subset
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2012, 03:27:50 PM »
A network is the electronic guts of a phone.  It allows for connecting the handset to the line and properly splits the transmitting voltage from the receiving voltage.  The 233 payphone did not come with a network inside.  Many people have put mini networks inside payphones and sold them on line and sold them in other places.  If yours is a 233G and has a network, then it is probably one that someone else has put in after the fact.  What kind of network does your payphone have in it?  If it has one already, then a 685 subset won't be necessary, although the 685 subset also has a ringer.

Do you have a photo of the inside of your payphone?

To answer your earlier question, why hook a payphone up to a 500 phone:

The 500 is a readily available phone at a relatively low cost.  The 685A subset contains exactly the same network and ringer as the model 500.  The 685 subset is not as available, and subsequently, they don't come up on e-bay or other places nearly as often, and when they do, they almost always cost more.  The ready solution is to use a 500 phone as a subset.

If you have looked inside a WE 500 phone, the network is the square metal box with a plastic cover that has a dozen or more terminal connectors on the top.

The network has an induction coil, a couple of resistors, a couple of varistors, and some capacitors.  The network not only matches the phone's transmitter and receiver (handset) to the line, but also provides for automatic line level compensation for voltage variances in the line, which are a function of how far the phone is located from the central office.  This made it so that whether someone was located down the block from a central office or accross town, the voice levels and sevice experience would be the same for all customers.

The model 500 network technology was designed in the late 1940's.  At the time, the network was a breakthrough in technology.  Prior to that, phones just had a simpler induction coil and one capacitor for the voice circuit and one for the ringer.  Due to the large size of the components, it was not until 1937 when the 302 came out that Western Electric put all the parts in the phone body.  Prior to that, all phones such as the 102, 202 and candlesticks needed a separate subset for the coil, capacitor and ringer.

Even when the 500 came out and the 233 was designed to use the network technology, the network parts were still somewhat large, and would not easily fit in the existing pay phone case.  Rather than redesigning the case, Western Electric and AE, the two makers of pay phones decided to use subsets.  You can get a feel for why this is by looking at a 500 and seeing that between the size of the ringer and the network itself, there really is not any room inside the 233.

Even when people now put mini networks inside the pay phones, they will usually remove the coin relay and put the network in the spot where the relay once was.

Cheers

-Bill G