Author Topic: Took a chance, 1949 500?  (Read 5685 times)

Offline HarrySmith

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Took a chance, 1949 500?
« on: March 29, 2012, 10:15:12 PM »
Listed as a 1949 500, not many pictures. After asking 2 questions I pulled the trigger.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160773788603
I have my fingers crossed and will let you know when it arrives.
Here is the Q & A:

 Seller has responded to your question about this item 
 
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Dear d_and_h_cool_stuff,

Nothing on the Bottom, However under the transmitter cap looks like @ 32845 and on the bell "A 4 9"


- enad69 Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply

 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: d_and_h_cool_stuff
To: enad69
Subject: Re: Other: d_and_h_cool_stuff sent a message about 1949 Western Electric Model 500 Telephone #160773788603
Sent Date: Mar-29-12 16:14:43 PDT



Dear enad69,


Thanks for the reply. Is there any markings or stamps on the bottom of the phone? Can you open it up to look inside?
Thanks, Harry

On Mar 29, 2012 1:30 PM, "eBay Member: enad69" < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:

                       
 eBay sent this message to D & H Cool Stuff (d_and_h_cool_stuff).
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 Seller has responded to your question about this item 
 
 Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More. 

                       
Dear d_and_h_cool_stuff,

We cross referenced the date via a cancelled check my grandparents used to purchase the phone in December of 1949..

Dane


- enad69 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: d_and_h_cool_stuff
To: enad69
Subject: Other: d_and_h_cool_stuff sent a message about 1949 Western Electric Model 500 Telephone #160773788603
Sent Date: Mar-28-12 18:00:17 PDT


Dear enad69,

Where did you get the 1949 date from? Is the phone stamped anywhere with that date?
Thanks!


- d_and_h_cool_stuff 

                   
 1949 Western Electric Model 500 Telephone
Item Id: 160773788603
End time: Apr-04-12 09:27:06 PDT
Seller:
 enad69 (2)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since Jan-30-12 in United States
Location: CO, United States
 

 

                   
               
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline paul-f

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 11:53:44 PM »
I hope you got a treasure, but suspect it's a really long shot.

Check out the photos of Dan's set.

The dial bezel on this one is much later.

How many 500 sets do you think the Bell System SOLD in 1949?
Visit: paul-f.com         WE 500  Design_Line

.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 12:35:07 AM »
How many 500 sets do you think the Bell System SOLD in 1949?

I was going to say that but then noticed that it claims to be a Western Electric phone which would imply that it may not say "Property of the Bell System" on it or did they not differentiate Bell System owned phones versus those made by WECo and sold to Independants that way back then? Still not many privately sold phones in 1949 I would say, especially when the particular phone was virtually a field trial item. What is really surprising is that someone could just look up the records of a phone their grandparents bought in 1949???

Terry
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 12:36:58 AM by AE_collector »

Offline liteamorn

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 07:29:25 AM »
Boy I hope your shot pays off!! I thought the handset cord was wrong. Didn't they have straight cords as opposed to curled ones? And if they were curled wouldn't they have a short nub at the handset? Could have been a replacement though. GOOD LUCK ! Let us know how you make out!

Offline HarrySmith

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 08:15:19 AM »
Yeah, I figured the cord was replaced. I was surprised to hear it was purchased also. He is going to try to get me a copy of the invoice and check from his aunt. I do not have too high hopes but you never know! I figured worse case scenario I could return it for not as described ::)
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline jsowers

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 08:56:59 AM »
Didn't they have straight cords as opposed to curled ones? And if they were curled wouldn't they have a short nub at the handset? Could have been a replacement though.

Coiled handset cords were always an option that could be added when the phone was installed or later on. Either cord is correct for an early 500 set. Coil cords became standard in 1957 or thereabouts.

That all being said, the coil cord on this phone is from the late 1960s or early 70s.
Jonathan

Offline HarrySmith

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 10:07:08 AM »
Forgot to add, the thing that made me buy it was when he gave me the numbers from the element "A 4 9".
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline liteamorn

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 10:25:23 AM »
Definitely worth rolling the dice on Harry, and at that price it would be the steal of the century! Good Luck! Let us know how you fare.

Offline Dan

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 01:06:43 PM »
Good luck. I have a 49er  and was lucky to get it.
"Imagine how weird telephones would look if our ears weren't so close to our mouths." - Steven Wright

Offline G-Man

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 02:57:00 PM »
Harry-

I hope you got yourself a 1949 500 set, the part about the grandparents purchasing it in 1949 really is suspicious! According to internal Bell Labs documents dated 1949, announcing the introduction of the 500, there had been limited production since manufacturing was in the process of being moved from Hawthorne to Indianapolis for production starting in 1950.

There was such a severe shortage of these sets, Western Electric continued to produce 300-series, 5300, and Imperial (202) sets for several more years.

Considering the acute shortage to the Bell operating companies, it is doubtful that early-on  they would have been selling them to individuals or the Independents since they could not fulfill their own needs. The one exception that I am aware of  is government sales since I ended up with a large box of 1950/1951 500-sets from an army camp. 

It would be interesting if you were to ask them to provide with the bill of sale so as to establish providence for the set. If the set is indeed legitimate, such a document may add to its value.

Offline G-Man

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 04:01:19 PM »
A couple of other notes-

 While handset cords on early 500-sets were fabric and straight, it was most likely replaced at some point. Coiled cords were not initially offered on these sets.  According to Bell Labs, there were problems with the compounds used in early neoprene cords since they would cause black marks when rubbing against the users clothing.

According to the number shown on the number card, this telephone was used in East Saint Louis, a Bell System operating company.
            
Also, the silver-gray line cord appears to be modular but perhaps (hopefully) it has spade-lugs instead.  It is difficult tell from the photos, are the feet fabric covered or neoprene?

Offline Adam

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 04:36:00 PM »
Um... Early 500s had FABRIC cords?  I thought fabric cords were last to be used on 302s.  I thought the earliest 500s had straight, rubber-coated cords.  Is that not true?
Adam Forrest
Los Angeles Telephone - A proud part of the global C*Net System
C*Net 1-383-4820

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 05:00:13 PM »
Yes, Neoprene rubber.  They made a big deal about the new neoprene cords in the 500 announcements that I have seen.
-Bill G

Offline G-Man

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 06:02:54 PM »
Not according the Bell Labs introduction. Also some members on the TCI list have early 500-sets with factory installed fabric cords.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Took a chance, 1949 500?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2012, 06:32:54 PM »
Ah, but see pages 85 and 86 of the attached.  It appears that the intent was to have neoprene.  

I was not yet born in 1949.  Actually, I came around in '51 so I am about as old as an early 500.  But, having been born at a very early age, I can't seem to remember seeing one with or without fabric cords.  

Knowing the Bell system, they could have changed their minds and put fabric cords in, but I have never seen a fabric cord made to fit the handle and cup combo of a G handset.  I've only seen them with the metal hooked stay.  Again, that doesn't mean the G handset fabric cords were never made.  I've learned never to say never.

See attachment, pp 85-86
-Bill G