Author Topic: Help with Wiring a WE 304  (Read 6481 times)

Offline Doug Rose

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Help with Wiring a WE 304
« on: October 20, 2012, 09:41:33 AM »
I found a beautiful WE 304, all dates match, even the porcelain dial plate. It is in wonderful condition, cloth cords, fantastic.

The problem is when I wire the red and yellow together on the jack, the phone rings fine, but won't dial out. It breaks DT but just hangs until I get a reorder tone. When I remove the yellow from the red it dials out fine, but it does not ring!! If I bring yellow the the green, it does not ring.

Any help is greatly appreciated....Doug
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Offline HowardPgh

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 11:18:21 AM »
Doug
Getting a 304 /H3 to work properly is not that easy.  From you pictures it looks like it is probably wired as a Tip Party Message Rate phone. Either L1 going to M on the coil or the Slate ringer leade going to M on the coil.
Refer to BSP Attco standard 502-400-402 or C38.555.
The internal wiring has to be changed to Individual or Bridged ringing.
One of the diagrams even show how to wire the phone to work a PBX using "A" connections from the hookswitch.
Nice phone and good luck with rewiring it.-Howard
Howard

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 12:32:32 PM »
Howard....I did try both and it still wouldn't ring!! I can either have it ring or dial out, but not both. Oh well.....Doug
Kidphone

Offline dsk

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2012, 01:28:20 PM »
I found a beautiful WE 304, all dates match, even the porcelain dial plate. It is in wonderful condition, cloth cords, fantastic.

The problem is when I wire the red and yellow together on the jack, the phone rings fine, but won't dial out. It breaks DT but just hangs until I get a reorder tone. When I remove the yellow from the red it dials out fine, but it does not ring!! If I bring yellow the the green, it does not ring.

Any help is greatly appreciated....Doug

My suggestion is:
  • Wire it as you did when it works, but not ring.
  • Follow red wire from ringer, and if its not connected to the line L1. (red line wire)
  • Follow the yellow from the ringer, and the slate from capacitor these to the same terminal. preferable the one marked K on the little quadratic terminal board.
  • Follow the other wire from the capacitor (yellow) and move it to the other line terminal L2 G (green line wire)

dsk
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 01:30:57 PM by dsk »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 02:39:29 PM »
Doug, if you rewire it like 95% of the 354 wall sets are wired, it will work fine.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 03:01:17 PM »
Red ringer wire to L1
Black ringer wire to K
Slate and Slate-red ringer wires to E

Yellow condenser wire to L2
Slate condenser wire to K

No wire connected to M on the 101B induction coil
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2012, 01:26:53 PM »
DSK/David....same thing, it rings, but I cannot dial out. This is really strange.....thanks for trying....Doug
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Offline dsk

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 01:45:20 PM »
Strange.
My (one and only) 302 has only 2 wires out red and yellow(should have been black according to diagram). What about yours?
My capacitor has only 4 wires, slate and yellow for the ringer circuit, and Red and Black for the induction coil.

When you have got the phone to work, without ringing you could start with the ringer circuit.

With no hence of colors, the ringer circuit should be from one line to the other.

line1----------Ringer--------(connection)---------Capacitor--------line2

Good luck!

dsk

Offline Bill

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 01:58:32 PM »
Doug -

Not meaning to beat the issue to death, but it sounds like the phone is expecting the operating voltages and signals to come in on red and green, and the ringing voltage to come in on green and ground (yellow). This is an old party line ringing arrangement, and is no longer used. In the standard single party line used today (aka bridged), both the operating voltages and signals, and the ringing voltage, come in on red and green. Yellow should be tied off.

Like poplar1, I would suggest that if you carefully review the wiring, and make sure it conforms to the diagram in
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5172.0
it should work.

Let us know what you find.

Bill
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 02:00:26 PM by Bill »

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 02:48:05 PM »
Strange.
My (one and only) 302 has only 2 wires out red and yellow(should have been black according to diagram). What about yours?
My capacitor has only 4 wires, slate and yellow for the ringer circuit, and Red and Black for the induction coil.

When you have got the phone to work, without ringing you could start with the ringer circuit.

With no hence of colors, the ringer circuit should be from one line to the other.

line1----------Ringer--------(connection)---------Capacitor--------line2

Good luck!

dsk
DSK....this is a 304 and not a 302...thanks for trying...Doug
Kidphone

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 03:08:35 PM »
Perhaps the capacitor is shorted  (Yellow and Slate). Do you have a spare from a cracked 302? Does the phone keep the line off-hook even when you hang up?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline dsk

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2012, 04:14:27 PM »
Strange.
My (one and only) 302 has only 2 wires out red and yellow(should have been black according to diagram). What about yours?
My capacitor has only 4 wires, slate and yellow for the ringer circuit, and Red and Black for the induction coil.

When you have got the phone to work, without ringing you could start with the ringer circuit.

With no hence of colors, the ringer circuit should be from one line to the other.

line1----------Ringer--------(connection)---------Capacitor--------line2

Good luck!

dsk
DSK....this is a 304 and not a 302...thanks for trying...Doug

Thank you 8) I have to learn to read.
I would mainly guess the same for the 304. Put it back to the state you had it working, but not ringing.
Then rewire the ringer circuit.

dsk

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2012, 07:51:01 PM »
Perhaps the capacitor is shorted (Yellow and Slate). Do you have a spare from a cracked 302? Does the phone keep the line unhook even when you hang up?
Cap works fine when I have it wired as it should be, the dial just doesn't work. I have spent way too much time on this. I usually throw 304s away and cannibalize the parts. To me they are the most frustrating phone.

Cap is fine, Phone works just as it should when I have it wired as I have it pictured, but no ring.

Wire it the way you asked it breaks dial tone but just hangs until reorder tone comes, but it does ring.

It is dated throughout, otherwise it would be parts  ??? :'(
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2012, 08:17:10 PM »
Do you agree that there should be no wire on M of the induction coil? If you have a wire on M I don't think the phone will work.

There really is no difference (once the ringer is rewired) between a 304 and a 302. Putting the Slate and Slate-Red ringer wires of a B2A ringer on E is equivalent to the strap betwen the coils on a B1A or B1AL ringer.

The only other difference is the extra hookswitch contacts IN THE 304/354  to get from L2 on the terminal strip  to RR on the induction coil. (You can also just put the line wire on RR instead of L2. RR is equivalent to the L1 terminal on the 101A induction coil of the 302.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Bill

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 12:23:35 AM »
Good catch, Poplar1. Doug's photo shows a wire on M, and it shouldn't be there.

A few months ago, a forum member (Nate?) queried me about a non-working 354. He looked at the drawing mentioned above, and noted that his phone had a wire on M. As soon as he removed it, and rewired according to the diagram, it came to life. He may choose to jump in here.

Bill