Author Topic: Help with Wiring a WE 304  (Read 6484 times)

Offline dsk

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2012, 06:55:30 AM »
This turns me crazy  :-\
I have never seen the 304, and not found the original wiring diagram.
Now I almost WANT ONE TO EXPLORE IT, but it could likely be modified before I get it.

Could you please point out some documentation about the wiring and use of the 304?

dsk

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2012, 10:02:47 AM »
dsk,

It is the same as a 354. See BSP 502-400-410 and C63.433 in the TCI library for the 354.

I hope someone can explain how this works. Basically, I think the set when wired for Tip Party ID provides a high-resistance path to ground (through part of the induction coil (RR to M) and one or two windings of the ringer) BUT ONLY WHEN THE PHONE IS OFF-HOOK. This is detected by the central office to identify the tip party subscriber for properly billing toll calls to the correct party.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 01:33:47 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 11:56:52 AM »
Update:

There is no E terminal in the 304 set. You  can use the G   GND terminal instead if you remove the yellow line cord wire. (This is just a convenient place to tie together the slate and slate-red ringer wires.)

I have an April, 1939  304 here that was rewired in the field for single party lines. The circuit is almost the same as the one above except the green line cord wire, green-red hookswich wire and the yellow condenser wire are moved from L2 on the terminal block  to RR on the 101B induction coil.

This means that only one side of the line is now opened by the hookswitch, but this is OK.

Then the L2 terminal is available instead of the "E (354)/ GND (304)" shown in the TCI diagram, and the two extra ringer wires are connected to the L2 terminal (no other wires on that terminal). Then the GND terminal in the rewired 304 can keep the yellow line cord wire by itself.

The reason this was done this way rather than the way shown in the TCI was so that the ringer could be connected to the yellow wire for flat rate party lines.

Most 302s you see will have either the red or black ringer wire on GND, connected to the yellow line cord wire. Then you have to connect the red and yellow or the green and yellow together at the wall. Hardwired 500s also come with the black ringer wire usally on G.

If you are using a half-modular cord (modular on one end and spades on the other), in a 302 you would connect the red ringer wire to L1 of the induction coil, black ringer wire to K,  slate condenser wire to K, and yellow condenser wire to L2/Y. On the 500, move the black ringer wire from G to L1.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 11:11:02 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 01:31:54 PM »
Doug, I just wired up a 354 for Tip Party ID per BSP C63.433, except that I connected the equivalent of red and yellow line wires together. It does exactly what you say: it will ring but it won't dial out. If I remove the black ringer wire, it will dial out and not ring. So there is nothing wrong with your 304; it just needs to be rewired.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 01:45:23 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline dsk

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 03:19:16 PM »
dsk,

It is the same as a 354. BSP 502-400-410 and C63.433 in the TCI library.

I hope someone can explain how this works. Basically, I think the set when wired for Tip Party ID provides a high-resistance path to ground (through part of the induction coil (RR to M) and one or two windings of the ringer) BUT ONLY WHEN THE PHONE IS OFF-HOOK. This is detected by the central office to identify the tip party subscriber for properly billing toll calls to the correct party.

Thank you, that clarifies it. If it is the same as a 354. See BSP 502-400-410 then it is a genius way to identify the telephone.

To wire it like a regular 302 should be easy. 2 wires from the ringer assembly (BK or S-R) are wired to the induction coil RR  and another (R or S) to the M  These 2 should be moved and connected together, e.g. At the GND terminal, and The ground wire should be taped. The ringer wire should be moved from GND terminal to a line terminal. If its BK to L1, and if its S-R to L2.

So for Doughs phone: You have the 1000 ohm ident ground version
Tape ground wire, move BK from GND to L1. Move S-R (coming from ringer) to GND (leave S-R from dial at RR) move S from M to GND.

If the diagram are right you should have a clean ringer circuit. From

L1---(BK)---ringer---(S + SR)---ringer---(R + S)---capacitor---(Y)---L2


dsk
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 03:49:27 PM by dsk »

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2012, 06:32:03 PM »
David....you are correct, I saw the open termnal next to M and saw it as open. I will open it up again and check it out. thanks to everyone on this...Doug
Kidphone

Offline TimM

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2012, 04:19:21 PM »
Doug,

Would you be willing to swap switchhooks with me? My 460M is wired for 1A which means it has a two position switchhook like a normal 302. To wire it for 1A1/1A2, I need a three position switchhook like your 304 has.

-Tim

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2012, 04:40:17 PM »
Tim, adding the extra hookswitch contacts will provide the A/A1 function to change the lamps (if any) from wink (hold) or flash (incoming call)  to steady (line in use).

However, the hold button is wired differently for the 1A-only sets. It closes contacts to hold on 1A. On 1A1 and 1A2, you need to open the contacts to remove the A1 ground from the KTU. I think there is a way to do that by unsoldering one lead and moving it to a vacant terminal.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 06:08:40 PM »
Doug,

Would you be willing to swap switchhooks with me? My 460M is wired for 1A which means it has a two position switchhook like a normal 302. To wire it for 1A1/1A2, I need a three position switchhook like your 304 has.

-Tim
Tim...are you looking for a 304 HKS with six wires. I can get you one, but I'm not touching this phone as it is untouched, all dates match. Let me know and I'll find you one....Doug

David....I will get to rewiring this weekend....I do appreciate all your help....Doug
Kidphone

Offline TimM

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2012, 06:12:57 PM »
Tim, adding the extra hookswitch contacts will provide the A/A1 function to change the lamps (if any) from wink (hold) or flash (incoming call)  to steady (line in use).

However, the hold button is wired differently for the 1A-only sets. It closes contacts to hold on 1A. On 1A1 and 1A2, you need to open the contacts to remove the A1 ground from the KTU. I think there is a way to do that by unsoldering one lead and moving it to a vacant terminal.

Yes, there is a bit more modding to do to get 1A1/1A2 hold functionality, but the hookswitch is an important first step. In addition to providing station busy feedback, I believe that those extra set of hookswitch contacts prevent a false hold from being triggered in certain circumstances.

I'm kind of on the fence about modifying the phone, so I may end up using a 227B KTU to do the conversion on the KTU side instead. I think I can reverse the action of the hold key using relays.

Offline TimM

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2012, 10:05:31 PM »
Tim...are you looking for a 304 HKS with six wires. I can get you one, but I'm not touching this phone as it is untouched, all dates match. Let me know and I'll find you one....Doug

David....I will get to rewiring this weekend....I do appreciate all your help....Doug

Thanks Doug. A six wire hookswitch is exactly the thing but after taking the phone apart for cleaning, I realized that the hookswitch is mounted on a zinc finger recess and not on a bracket and plastic recess like newer 300-type phones, so maybe I ought to leave it alone. The relay idea is looking more and more attractive.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2012, 11:01:46 AM »
Doug,

502-400-402, Issue 5, Dec., 1963. Table D in TCI Library shows connections for using a 304 on individual lines.

This didn't come up before when I searched for 304 on TCI library. Paul F. mentioned it in a post on 1/27/11

(Rotary Phones / Technical "Stuff" / Re: Need WE 211 wiring help)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2012, 12:41:28 PM »
Dave....I must have spent four hours on this. It was a very humbling experience. It is on eBay. All dated match, even the porcelain dial plate. Frustration was running very high!!!   ??? I surrender...Doug
Kidphone

Offline dsk

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2012, 02:28:49 PM »
 :( Its not a good feeling, giving up on this, but I really hope you get your money back, and a little for the job. 

dsk

Dave....I must have spent four hours on this. It was a very humbling experience. It is on eBay. All dated match, even the porcelain dial plate. Frustration was running very high!!!   ??? I surrender...Doug

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help with Wiring a WE 304
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2012, 03:24:27 PM »
Doug, I agree that a phone with all matching dates and original cords should be left that way. I'm sorry you didn't get it ringing. I'm sure you will run across another 304 at some point. If so, it could be wired like a 354 wall phone if you free up the GND terminal (to use instead of E).
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.