Author Topic: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams  (Read 89517 times)

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #135 on: June 18, 2012, 09:31:15 PM »
The problem is the black ringer is only a ringer and not a subset.  That hookup is not covered in the easy wiring diagrams, since it is not a subset.

A subset has not only the ringer and ringing capacitor, but also the induction coil and talk capacitor.  Your ringer only has the first two items in it.  Your ringer looks to be an E1 from a Princess phone.  It will certainly work as its intended purpose as a stand-alone ringer, but it will not serve as a subset to your D mount (202) phone base.

You will need to get a 634 or 684 subset which includes the ringer, or make a subset from a scrap 302, or hook it up to a 425-type network from a junker 500 or make a cheater subset from parts from Radio Shack.

-Bill 
-Bill G

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #136 on: June 18, 2012, 10:14:48 PM »
I was going to say that looked like a Bell Chime to me rather than a subset.

Terry

Offline dhilarious

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #137 on: June 18, 2012, 10:23:58 PM »
The problem is the black ringer is only a ringer and not a subset.  That hookup is not covered in the easy wiring diagrams, since it is not a subset.

A subset has not only the ringer and ringing capacitor, but also the induction coil and talk capacitor.  Your ringer only has the first two items in it.  Your ringer looks to be an E1 from a Princess phone.  It will certainly work as its intended purpose as a stand-alone ringer, but it will not serve as a subset to your D mount (202) phone base.

You will need to get a 634 or 684 subset which includes the ringer, or make a subset from a scrap 302, or hook it up to a 425-type network from a junker 500 or make a cheater subset from parts from Radio Shack.

-Bill 

I am confused, everything works.  I have many 634 and 684 subsets, but they are huge.  Why do I need them my the phone does everything (rings, makes calls, dial tone, etc). 

Let me know what I am missing.

Offline dhilarious

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #138 on: June 18, 2012, 10:27:43 PM »


Online poplar1

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #139 on: June 18, 2012, 10:45:24 PM »
Putting all the parts from a 634A or 684A subset into the phone itself would have taken a lot of room on the desk, although there is a wall phone (653A) that does just that. In 1937 the parts were made small enough that they could fit inside a 302, and this was small enough for most installations.

A car with no headlights, brakes, windshield wipers, horn and only first gear "runs>" A 202 was never intended to be a complete phone unless it was connected to a subset.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline dhilarious

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #140 on: June 18, 2012, 10:50:09 PM »
Putting all the parts from a 634A or 684A subset into the phone itself would have taken a lot of room on the desk, although there is a wall phone (653A) that does just that. In 1937 the parts were made small enough that they could fit inside a 302, and this was small enough for most installations.

A car with no headlights, brakes, windshield wipers, horn and only first gear "runs>" A 202 was never intended to be a complete phone unless it was connected to a subset.

I get all of that, but I am still unclear.  Every function on my phone works.  It dials out, receives calls, rings, etc.  So I am asking, why do I need to change this part for a "real" subset.  If this is not a subset, why does everything work.  Thats all I asking because this is all new to me.


Offline AE_Collector

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #141 on: June 18, 2012, 11:53:27 PM »
Have you used the phone as a daily driver including long distance calls etc? A Network equalises the volume that you hear in the receiver so that your voice isn't considerably louder than the distant parties voice. This situation compounds the further you are from the CO so if you use a VOIP phone service provider that might not be a factor at least.

Terry

Offline TelePlay

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #142 on: June 18, 2012, 11:54:45 PM »
The problem is the black ringer is only a ringer and not a subset.  That hookup is not covered in the easy wiring diagrams, since it is not a subset.

Isn't that black ringer an early EMC1 that was used on or with the early 701 Princess phones, the Princess phones that did not have a ringer inside the base, and where ever else an in line ringer was needed for whatever purpose the user had in mind?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 12:09:11 AM by TelePlay »
            John . . .

              

Online poplar1

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #143 on: June 19, 2012, 12:08:43 AM »
One thing you might have noticed is that when you hang up there is a loud pop in the receiver. (Or that when you mash the brake pedal, nothing happens.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #144 on: June 19, 2012, 12:35:19 AM »
Basically, you currently have the transmitter and receiver in series and they are directly across the line.  DC goes through both the transmitter and the receiver.

DC is only supposed to go through the transmitter with only a small AC current going through the receiver.  The subset, big as they were, has an induction coil and a capacitor in them that splits the transmitter and the receiver into two different paths and a isolates the receiver from having direct current across it which can demagnetize the permanent magnet inside the receiver and make it useless.

The subset also both boosted the signal going out so people on the other end would hear you better, and provided antisidetone compensation so that your own room noise and your own voice are not heard so loud in the receiver.

That's what a subset does.

Telephones were developed in the 1870's.  The 202 and associated subsets were a product of the 1920's and 1930's.  Coils and capacitors were huge by today's standards.  The subset was necessary back then, otherwise as cheap as the Bell System was, believe me, they would not have designed phones to have them if they were not necessary!

It was not until the late 1930's that components were small enough so that the entire phone could be placed in one housing.  Thus the Western Electric 302.  In the 302, they basically moved all the components of a 202 with 2 boxes (The subset + the phone body) into one housing.  After the war, even more advances were made to the size of capacitors to even get better compactness.

So, you can do your phone all you want with no subset.  There are no subset police out there.  Just remember, you will have better performance, it will be more authentic, and you will extend the life of the receiver in your handset by having a subset.

Cheers,
-Bill G

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #145 on: June 19, 2012, 12:41:24 AM »
1928 actually! Though little more than a subset with an AE 1A molded onto the top to make it a 1 piece unit.

Somewhere I recently saw a pair of Western Electric versions of the AE#2, One was green and the other was red :)

<-----------AE #2 from 1928 (until I change my Avater at least - If the picture to the left IS NOT an AE #2, insert picture of AE #2 here)

Terry
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:13:30 AM by AE_collector »

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #146 on: June 19, 2012, 12:56:17 AM »
Bragger!

-Bill G

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2012, 12:57:20 AM »
You are right, though. WE took a page right out of the AE catalog and made their own.
-Bill G

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2012, 01:11:00 AM »
Lots of copying went on.

Terry

Offline dhilarious

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #149 on: June 20, 2012, 08:57:51 PM »
wow, im having no luck.  I have 2 202 model phones both with a 685(a) subset.  one with a 5H dial and a newer one with a 6A dial (Imperial).  Anyway, I tried wiring my subset and phone exactly as the diagram.  When I do that it rings but no dial tone or anything else.  So I open my imperial  202 it works and  has the same subset and its wired different in both the subset and the phone itself.  I re-wired it the same as the imperial and it works.

I will try to get pictures when I can but one thing I remember was that there were 1 or connections that needed to be on the side tab strip that you said does not need anything.  There were  maybe 2 other differences as well.