Author Topic: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams  (Read 85757 times)

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 01:58:28 AM »
Penn:

The 395 transmitter was the original for the older E1 handsets, and was a horrible transmitter by today's (or yesterday's) standards.  It is also called a bullet transmitter due to its construction that has the ball-like protrusion.  It's technical name was the barrier-button transmitter.  It came on the scene in the 20's and was replaced by the F1 transmitter in the mid to late 30's.  The E1 handset was retrofitted to take the F1 transmitter element with an adapter.

The F1 handset was specifically designed around the F1 transmitter.  The F1 transmitter was replaced by the T1 transmitter when the 500 came out in 1949.  (1948 for the early trial sets).

So, an F1 element in an E1 handset is perfectly acceptable.  In fact, many B mounts and D mounts were also retrofitted to F1 handsets when the E1's went south.  Sounds like your problem was the 395 transmitter in the handset you have.  Normal wear and tear and normal currents should not make them smell burnt, however.  Maybe it took a lightning hit in a past life.

-Bill G

Offline paul-f

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 02:16:06 AM »
Larry Wolff's book, Desk Telephones of the Bell System, states that the F1 transmitter housed in a 625A enclosure replaced the 395B in E1 handsets in 1935.
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Offline Penn0920

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 10:38:37 AM »
Hi Bill,
well thanks to all of your help, I got her up and running.  Many many thanks.   I'm just curious have you ever salvaged a bad bullet transmitter?  I'm thinking about getting a voltage reading, and sticking in a condenser mic in there with an approx. resistor.

Penn
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 11:25:19 PM by Penn0920 »
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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 11:50:17 AM »
Penn:

If there is no physical damage to the bullet transmitter, you could empty out all the carbon and salvage carbon granuals from several T1's to fill the 395B.  I believe it would take several T1's to do a bullet, but I have never done it, even though I have one that I have been wanting to truy, but have never had the time.  It would be trial and error as to how full to fill the 395B.  The carbon in the 395B I believe is readily accessible via a screw plug at the peak of the bullet dome once the bakelite bullet cover is off.

As to the condesner mic, or even an electret mic, it has definitely been done.  There is ample voltage.  On the 102, 202, and 302 sets, the transmitter is in series with the primary of the induction coil and those are connected directly to tip and ring of the phone line.  Under load, you have about 35 mA (give or take) and about 6-8 volts (give or take).  Unloaded, the voltage coming from a telco central office is 48.  From a Voip router, it can be anything from 24 to 48 unloaded, but under load it usually winds up being 6-8.

With no electronic devices connected, polarity in the older phones was not an issue.  If you use a mic that is dependant on polarity, you know what to do.
-Bill G

Offline bingster

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2010, 05:49:10 AM »
I've updated the initial post in the thread to include better subset diagrams for the 634/684 subset.  They were redrawn from images of subset interior schematic labels. 
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Offline Wallphone

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2010, 02:13:55 PM »
Nice work on the updated diagrams Bingster (as usual). I didn't see any where on the Forum how to hook a 425 network up to a WE 202 (#2, 4, or 5 dial). Maybe I missed it.
If you go to the TCI Library > http://www.telephonecollectors.org/library/weco/weco.htm < and look up "202 set with 685 Type Subset", that should do it.
Dougpav

Offline bingster

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2010, 07:54:53 PM »
Bill did some study on this a while back, and determined that the common method of connecting a 425 network to a 202 is overly complicated, and the network will work just fine without the need for extra conductors in the mounting cord and without modifications to the wiring inside the phone.  Here's the post:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1958.0

I'll try to work up a diagram for this setup.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 04:37:02 PM by bingster »
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Offline Wallphone

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 09:08:16 PM »
Thanks for looking up that earlier post Bingster. I have bench tested the other circuit and it seemed to work fine. I will try this way of doing it too. I like the idea of using a 425 instead of the mini networks because then you have the option of using a ringer. I'm looking forward to your diagram.
Dougpav

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2010, 10:23:33 PM »
Bingster,

I would be very happy to see a pictorial diagram based on that.  I was thinking of doing it some day myself, but my computer graphics skills are not very great.

Looking forward,

Bill
-Bill G

Offline bingster

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 05:41:37 AM »
The new 685/425B subset diagram is up on the first page.  If any problems are spotted, please let me know. (I checked and double checked, though.)

A couple notes on the 685 subset (the one with 500-style components):  There's nothing soldered to the network in this subset, which is as it should be.  However, if you use an old 500 base as a subset, you will find several conductors soldered directly to the network.  ALL these must be removed, either by unsoldering them or snipping them off.  Also, note that there is a jumper wire attached between terminals "RR" and "L1."  Any short piece of wire will do for this purpose.
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Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2010, 08:59:47 AM »
Awesome diagrams, Darrin.  Thank you!

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2010, 09:56:56 PM »
Darrin:

Great work, and I have been at work doing some testing.  I have one slight change to the 102/202 with the 425B network to make.

That is, under furhter consideration, the black wire is best connected to B rather than C.  It creates a little more boost in local volume, and does a better job of sidetone suppression.  C will work, but B is better, AND it has the benefit of being more the norm as in hooking the black wire to "B", AND B is always a screw terminal and C is usually a solder terminal in dial 500's.

I should have seen that before.  Kind of like a duh!

With the 102, the black wire does not exist, and therefore is not connected at all.

Maybe two separate diagrams would be in order.

This will work on ANY 425B and above, including 4228B and many, many others that are based on 500 and 2500 wiring, including Princesses, etc.

I can work up a 425A diagram, which would be different, but I doubt there are any out there to be used as subsets, and are found mostly in the coveted early 500 phones, so I won't at least unless someone wants it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 10:00:57 PM by Phonesrfun »
-Bill G

Offline paul-f

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2010, 12:16:48 AM »
Thanks for looking up that earlier post Bingster. I have bench tested the other circuit and it seemed to work fine. I will try this way of doing it too. I like the idea of using a 425 instead of the mini networks because then you have the option of using a ringer. I'm looking forward to your diagram.
Dougpav

Doug,

You always have the option of using a ringer -- even without a mini network.  All you need is a capacitor and the ringer in series across L1 and L2.  (You don't need a 425 network to get the capacitor.)
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Offline bingster

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2010, 04:35:37 PM »
Thanks for the update, Bill.  I've replaced the 685/425/etc diagram with a revised version.  Also, instead of having one for 202 and another for 102, I just added a note to the diagram regarding the black mounting cord conductor.  I think I'll try this out tonight, as I haven't given it a go yet. It seems so much easier than the other way, which is really rather complicated.
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Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2010, 06:00:49 PM »
Darrin:

It looks good.
-Bill G