Author Topic: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present  (Read 4086 times)

Offline DavePEI

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4002
  • Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
    • The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« on: January 04, 2013, 08:16:21 PM »
A big problem has always been getting into 3 slots that have their coin box inside. If there is no box, one can always come in from the back, and unscrew the lock. But with a coin box inside, you don't have access to this method. An interesting suggestion was posted on Singingwires, the TCI listserve today.

After a series of emails about single slot phones, this came from Tim Fox, who worked for GTE in the 70s.

__________________

"Good morning All, and Happy New Year ----------------

Back in the early 70s in my time with General Telephone (GTE, Verizon) as both a technician and Supervisor we occasionally had to "break into" a paystation.  In that time we used the Automatic Electric LPA, LPB, and LPC series phones.  The vault doors were hardened and had a non-round, shaped keyhole that discouraged drilling as the bit would hang up on the tangs that protruded into the keyhole.  The ready resolution and preferred (GSP) method of defeating the vault lock was to remove the upper housing and drill a 1/4" hole downward through the front lip of the base housing in the space between the words Automatic and Electric stamped into the lower housing frame.  The hole is drilled in roughly the center of  the narrow annodized flange of the pan that fits down into the lower housing framework directly above the "l".   Once drilled, you had access to the top of the lock blade and would use a hammer & drift punch to drive the lock blade back into its housing, thus releasing the vault door without damage.
 
This is all from memory so maybe one of us can provide appropriate pictures of the subject payphones to provide illustration to my thoughts................
 
Tim Fox"


__________________

Now, I haven't tried this myself, but it should work. Looking at a locked AE base, it looks as though the hole should be directly above the "L" in "Electric". If someone wants to send me a locked AE phone, I will give it a try  ;) Sadly, the only AE phone I do have, an  AE LPB 82 55, has all its keys.

Someone may be able to provide the related GSP and pix of the "surgery" for us to all appreciate. Both Tim and I would be interested in any additional information on this. What we need to know, is exactly how far back from the front edge the hole has to be, so the punch will center on the lock.

Perhaps someone with an AE lower housing handy would measure it to determine how far exactly the hole should be in from the outer edge of the phone to center it on the lock. Remember, the goal is to place the hole, so that the punch can push the latch back in the lock.  Then, perhaps someone handy with graphics programs could do us up a template people could use to get the hole in exactly the correct position. Perhaps, someone could also do the same with a WE 3 slot, as this should work with them, but with slightly adjusted drilling locations.

The beauty of this method, is the coin door and the coin box should be undamaged. The lock will be destroyed, a small sacrifice.

Dave
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 09:35:31 AM by DavePEI »
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

Offline rdelius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1570
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 08:37:21 PM »
If there  is no coin vault box, you can use a thin flat blade screwdriver and a flashlight through the holes in back of the set and remove the screws that hold the lock. Another method remove all the screws that hold the coin vault to the back board. 2 will have to be drilled out because they are backwards.  If you get lucky, the drill might catch them unthreading them into the set. Both these methods have worked  for me.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 05:09:54 AM by DavePEI »

Offline DavePEI

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4002
  • Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
    • The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 08:43:36 PM »
If there  is no coin vault box, you can use a thin flat blade screwdriver and a flashlight through the holes in back of the set and remove the screws that hold the lock. Another method remove all the screws that hold the coin vault to the back board .2 will have to be drilled out because they are backwards.  If you get lucky, the drill might catch them unthreading them into the set.Both these methods have worked  for me
Yes, that is a given. I have mentioned this method several times here, and on my site. However, often there is a coin box, and this will allow getting in without damage to the coin box or door. The drilled hole afterwards is hidden by the upper section.

Dave
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 05:10:06 AM by DavePEI »
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

Offline DavePEI

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4002
  • Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
    • The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 09:41:03 AM »
Perhaps someone with an AE lower housing handy would measure it to determine how far exactly the hole should be in from the outer edge of the phone to center it on the lock? Remember, the goal is to place the hole, so that the punch can push the latch back in the lock.  Then, perhaps someone handy with graphics programs could do us up a template people could use to get the hole in exactly the correct position. Perhaps, someone could also do the same with a WE 3 slot, as this should work with them, but with slightly adjusted drilling locations.

While I do have an AE, it is over in the museum, and I am ill this week, and can't go over there to get measurements. I am hoping someone will have one open on their bench and can measure it to determine how far back from the front edge of the phone the hole should be drilled to be directly above the latch of the lock.

As I mentioned, it would be great if someone with an open WE could do the same.

Eventually, someone good with graphics could do us up a drilling template for both.

Dave
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 01:53:32 PM by DavePEI »
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

Offline dennisjnunes

  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2013, 08:57:49 PM »
Dave I think I have a lock that was treated with that method, I always wondered why the tang on that lock was flatend like that, Dennis.

Offline DavePEI

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4002
  • Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
    • The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2013, 09:27:11 PM »
Dave I think I have a lock that was treated with that method, I always wondered why the tang on that lock was flatend like that, Dennis.
Yes, I have seen the odd one like that, too and always wondered what did it!

Looking forward to the spring to do the measurements on my phones so we can provide a good template for drilling. Sure would be handy for anyone with a coin box stuck in the way of getting in from the back!

From the sound of the storm coming in a couple of hours, it may be July before the snow drifts melt ;D

Dave
The Telephone Museum of Prince Edward Island:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/museum.html
Free Admission - Call (902) 651-2762 to arrange a visit!
C*NET 1-651-0001

Offline kleenax

  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • AE Model 32A14
    • TelephoneCreations.com
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 08:39:27 AM »

The beauty of this method, is the coin door and the coin box should be undamaged. The lock will be destroyed, a small sacrifice.

Dave

Having opened MANY 3-slots, I have to tell you Dave, that NOT ruining the 10L lock is my PRIMARY objective! Have you priced 10L locks lately?

What I do in this case is to get a NEW, SHARP drill bit and use the aforementioned technique to come in from the back (removing the lower housing) by "backing out" the mounting screws. Of all the times I have done this, I think I have only had to drill out 1/2 dozen screws that wouldn't back out and fall into the lower housing.

Then, I simply "surgically" remove the coin box (read that - "destroy") by various means; usually squeezing it into a smaller shape to allow it's removal from the back.

Last point: 3-slot coin boxes are WAY MORE easily replaceable than that coveted 10L lock!!!
Ray Kotke
http://telephonecreations.com
Recumbent Casting, LLC

Offline rdelius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1570
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 07:45:04 PM »
Agree with Kleenax although if you destroy the box just the box and try to salvage the lid. There seem to be more small boxes without lids, Possibly the single slot boxes were bought lidless and the old lids transfered

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2013, 12:24:07 PM »

The beauty of this method, is the coin door and the coin box should be undamaged. The lock will be destroyed, a small sacrifice.

Dave

Having opened MANY 3-slots, I have to tell you Dave, that NOT ruining the 10L lock is my PRIMARY objective! Have you priced 10L locks lately?

What I do in this case is to get a NEW, SHARP drill bit and use the aforementioned technique to come in from the back (removing the lower housing) by "backing out" the mounting screws. Of all the times I have done this, I think I have only had to drill out 1/2 dozen screws that wouldn't back out and fall into the lower housing.

Then, I simply "surgically" remove the coin box (read that - "destroy") by various means; usually squeezing it into a smaller shape to allow it's removal from the back.

Last point: 3-slot coin boxes are WAY MORE easily replaceable than that coveted 10L lock!!!

Ray and Robby--what size bit and what kind? I got one screw to back out but the other one is still stuck. I'm about ready to break something!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 12:25:57 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline rdelius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1570
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 10:21:12 AM »
I would drill out the backwards 1/4-20 screws with something smaller poss 3/16.If you are lucky. the screw will screw itself down and out.penetrating oil soaking might help. Sometimes the screws are hardened so watch out. work up with larger bits to try to not damage anything.The inner "shelf" that holds the hopper and coils has small 6-40? screws, 1/8? might work.i would leave the shelf alone and destroy the inner coin box body it is easally replaced.I would not drill  a hole in the vault or vault door.Before drilling, use a center punch to prevent drill walking

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5553
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Getting into AE 3 Slot Lower Housings with Coin Box Present
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 05:37:37 PM »
I would drill out the backwards 1/4-20 screws with something smaller poss 3/16.If you are lucky. the screw will screw itself down and out.penetrating oil soaking might help. Sometimes the screws are hardened so watch out. work up with larger bits to try to not damage anything.The inner "shelf" that holds the hopper and coils has small 6-40? screws, 1/8? might work.i would leave the shelf alone and destroy the inner coin box body it is easally replaced.I would not drill  a hole in the vault or vault door.Before drilling, use a center punch to prevent drill walking

Thanks, Robby. I do think this particular one has hardened screws.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.