Author Topic: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules  (Read 5014 times)

Offline AE_Collector

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CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« on: January 18, 2013, 10:31:38 PM »
<edit>

Here are the Auction Contest "suggested rules" somewhat agreed upon in the discussion below. - Terry

Rule #1 - Closest guess to the final selling price wins.  ( co-winners for exact ties )

Rule #2 - Guesses need to be in 24 Hours before the auction completion time/date.

Rule #3 - No Crowding ( each contest set up states a guess gap flat dollar amount )     
Split the difference evenly when placing your guess between two other guesses that have less than 10% 'space' between them. Less than 5% of 'space' from another guess will likely not be accepted. A change to the 5% rule may be made at the beginning of a new auction contest.

Rule #4 - A member who has submitted a guess may revise (change) their guess once anytime up to 24 hours before the auction ends by placing their revised guess in a new post/reply to the contest topic.


To see the phones that have been part of past Auction Contests, click -> HERE <-.


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I thought we should have some basic rules for the Auction Contests just like any other game would have. Like everything else here on CRPF we are are here for fun so "rules" doesn't really sound like much fun so rules should be really basic and a little bit flexible.

Rule #1 Guesses have to be Below the Final Selling Price to Win:

So far it has been said that the rule is your guess has to be under or equal to the final selling price. If your guess is higher than the final selling price the next guy who guessed lower wins. I am not sure I completely understand the logic of that, I think that "closest guess wins" would be more logical and easier over all.

Auction 77 stands out to me as an example of where the "can't guess higher" rule doesn't really seem right:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=7920.0

twocvbloke              $638  (WINNER) (Final Price was $770)
K1WI                            $777

twocvbloke won at $132 below the final selling price and K1WI lost becasue he was $7 over. Nothing personal twocv, it just happened to be you and you won by the rules of the contest.

Am I missing some compelling reason to not just switch to whomever is the closest for future contests?

Rule #2 - Guesses Need to be in 24 Hours before the Auction Completes

Guesses have to be in approximately 24 hours before the auction completes as that is usually when activity heats up and obviously one can't wait until the last few minutes to throw their Guess into the ring.

Seems reasonable to me, any comments?

Rule #3 N/A  ( each contest states the minimum space from a guess in the first each contest set up ) Don't Crowd Existing Guesses!

This has never been talked about but something that doesn't seem right to me is that late comers can put a guess in that is only slightly higher than an existing guess effectively removing any range for an existing guess to possibly win.

For example, these two guesses are in already:
"AE's R Best" guessed $319.00
"WECo's SUK" guessed $375.00
Then"GPO R OK" weighs in with a guess of $321.00''

"GPO R OK" has a range of $54 to win but he left "AE's R Best" with only a $2 range to win. Doesn't really seem fair considering the other guys were there first.

A tough call but what if we attempt to leave about a 10% (of your guess price) margin
around existing guesses but down to 5% is acceptable especially if there are quite a few "players" in the contest. Changes to the 5% rule may be made at the start of a new auction contest.


Rule #4 Guesses Can Be Changed Once!

Members who revise their guess will have to do so in a new post (a reply) in the contest topic, so that the change will be caught by me and made. Just revising their guess by doing an edit to their original post may be missed so a new post is required for the change to be accepted.

Revised guesses are still subject to the no crowding rule, Rule #3. The revised guess will be given the next highest order number, an asterisk (*) will be placed after that number indicating a changed guess and all guesses placed after the original revised guess will drop down one in the guess order. That is necessary to enforce Rule #3 in that the first person to take a slot with a guess has precedent over the slot.

The Rules I propose would be:
Rule #1 Closest guess to the final selling price wins.
Rule #2 Guesses need to be in 24 Hours before the auction completes.
Rule #3 No Crowding! ( see each contest set up for the guess gap )  Attempt to leave existing guesses 5% or more "room" unless changed at the start of a new auction contest.
Rule #4 A guess may be revised once but no less than 2 days before the auction ends.

Comments?

Terry
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 09:34:11 PM by TelePlay »

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 11:00:19 PM »
Terry,

#2 would be better if it said "Guesses must be posted at least 24 Hours before the auction ends." IMHO, of course.

I have a problem with using a percentage in that a $500 phone would be $50 at 10% but $200 for a $2,000 phone, for example. Maybe a fixed dollar amount, say $40?
            John . . .

              

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 11:17:50 PM »
#2 would be better if it said "Guesses must be posted at least 24 Hours before the auction ends." IMHO, of course.

Pretty much the same thing I think. As long as someone posts their guess to the topic ithin 24 hours it doesn't matter if one of the moderators gets the list of guesses updated right away or not.

As for the 5% to 10% rule, it's difficult to set it at a fixed dollar amount as well. Maybe it would be better to try for just 5%. If the "Closest to the final price" rule wins out over the "guesses can't be higher the final selling price" rule that improves this situation as well, 5% "room" should then be ample. Another way to word it would be "Split the difference between two existing guesses if you can't leave each existing guess with 5% "space".

Terry
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 11:34:15 PM by AE_Collector »

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 01:32:28 AM »
Terry,

Should have used the word "submitted" instead of "posted." I forgot about the posting lag.  :-\

5% would work.
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Offline AE_Collector

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2013, 01:38:27 AM »
Thanks for the input John. Will see if there are more comments.

Terry

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2013, 02:56:12 AM »
twocvbloke won at $132 below the final selling price and K1WI lost becasue he was $7 over.

I did? Where's me prize then?  :D

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 06:54:18 AM »
That's what makes the rules so important, the big prize payout! CRPF doesn't want to land in court.

Terry

Offline Russ Kirk

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 11:33:58 AM »
I think these rules are great.  I see rule one just like they use on the TV show Price is Right.

Rule three is s tough one.  But I do like the no crowding rule.
- Russ Kirk
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Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2013, 12:02:27 PM »
Terry, do you have a link to the "original" rules?  I think it may have evolved from an auction in 2008 with this thread:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17.15

There weren't a lot of participants at this time.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 12:06:10 PM by Dennis Markham »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 02:38:10 AM »
I hadn't found that one yet Dennis but I had located this early one:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=35.0

Someone asked if the "Auction Contests" should be like the "Price is Right" as far as not going over and then that is how it evolved. Is that how the Price is Right works? You can't guess over the real price? I have no idea though inhaveseen the show before.

Are there any objections to us moving towards a "closest guess wins" format?

Terry
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 02:41:52 AM by AE_Collector »

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 03:57:57 AM »
Here's the game. I think the CRPF should be closest, over or under because it's not live, there are many contestants and no one knows when the next or final auction guess will be placed - so bidding $1 would never win a contest.

---------------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Price_Is_Right_(U.S._game_show)#One_Bid

The gameplay on the show consists of four distinct competition elements, in which nine preliminary contestants (or six, depending on the episode's running time) eventually are narrowed to two finalists who compete in the "Showcase."
 
One Bid
 
At the beginning of the show the first four contestants are called down from the audience by the announcer. Since the audience seating is sloped down towards the Contestants' Row, the announcer shouts "Come on down!" after each name, a phrase which has become a trademark of the show.
 
The four players in Contestants' Row compete in a One Bid qualifying game to determine which contestant will play the next pricing game. A prize is shown and each contestant gives a single bid for the item. In the first One Bid game of each episode, bidding begins with the player on the viewer's left to right. In subsequent One Bid games, the order of bidding still moves from the viewer's left to right, but it begins with the newest contestant. Contestants bid in whole dollars and may not duplicate another player's bid. The player whose bid is closest to the actual retail price of the prize without going over wins the prize and plays the next pricing game.
 
If all four contestants overbid, the host instructs the contestants to re-bid below the lowest previous bid. If a contestant bids the actual retail price, a bell rings and the player wins a cash bonus in addition to the prize. From its introduction in 1977 until 1998, the "perfect bid" bonus was $100; it was increased to $500 in 1998. On The Price Is Right $1,000,000 Spectacular, the bonus is $1,000.
 
Pricing games
 
After winning the One Bid, the contestant comes onstage for the opportunity to win additional prizes or cash playing a pricing game. After the pricing game ends, a new contestant is selected for Contestants' Row and the process is repeated. Six pricing games are played on each hour-long episode; three games per episode were played in the half-hour format. On a typical hour-long episode, two games—one in each half of the show—will be played for a car, one game will be played for a cash prize and the other games will offer merchandise or trips. Usually, one of the six games will involve grocery products, while another will involve smaller prizes that can be used to win a larger prize package.
 
Originally, five pricing games were in the rotation.[5] Since then, more games have been created and added to the rotation and, starting with the 60-minute expansion in 1975, the rate at which games premiered increased. Games are occasionally discontinued. Seventy-four games are listed in the current rotation.[6]
 
On the 1994 syndicated version hosted by Doug Davidson, the rules of several games were modified and other aesthetic changes were made. Notably, the grocery products used in some games on the daytime version were replaced by small merchandise prizes, generally valued less than $100. Beginning in 2008, episodes of The Price Is Right $1,000,000 Spectacular featured rule changes to some pricing games which rewarded a $1 million bonus to the contestant if specific goals were achieved while playing the pricing game.
 
Showcase Showdown
 
Since the expansion to 60 minutes in 1975, each episode features two playings of the Showcase Showdown, occurring after the third and sixth pricing games. Each features the three contestants who played the preceding pricing games spinning "The Big Wheel" to determine who advances to the Showcase.
 
The contestants play in the order of the value of his or her winnings thus far (including in the One Bid round), with the contestant who has won the most spinning last. In the rare event two or all three players are tied in winnings, a coin toss or random drawing determines which player goes first.
 
The wheel contains 20 sections showing values from 5˘–$1.00, in increments of five cents.[7] The first contestant spins the wheel and may choose to stop with his or her score or spin again, adding the value of the second spin to their first. The second and third contestants then spin the wheel and try to match or beat the leader's score; if they fail to do so, they must spin again. If their total score is either less than that of the leader or over $1.00, the contestant is eliminated from the game. The contestant whose score is nearest to $1.00 without going over advances to the Showcase at the end of each episode. If the first two contestants go over $1.00, the last contestant automatically advances to the Showcase, however they are given one spin to see if they can hit $1.00.
 
Any contestant whose score equals $1.00 (from either one spin or a combination of two spins) receives a $1,000 bonus, and since 1978, a bonus spin. In the bonus spin, the wheel is positioned on 5˘ and the contestant takes their spin. If the wheel stops on 5˘ or 15˘ (which are adjacent to the $1.00 space and painted green), the contestant receives a bonus of $10,000. If the wheel stops on $1.00 during the bonus spin, the contestant wins an additional $25,000. Until September 2008, the bonuses were $5,000 for landing on a green section and $10,000 for landing on $1.00. If the wheel stops on another space or fails to make one complete revolution, the contestant wins no additional money and does not get to spin again.
 
Two or more contestants who are tied with the leading score compete in a spin-off. Each player gets one additional spin and the higher scorer advances to the Showcase. Multiple spin-offs are played until the tie is broken. Those who hit $1.00 in their spin-off spin still get $1,000 and a bonus spin. If two or more contestants tie with a score of $1.00, their bonus spins also determine their spin-off score. Only the spin-off score, not any bonus money won, determines which contestant moves on to the Showcase. A tie in a bonus spin spin-off means the ensuing second spin-off will be spun with no bonuses available.
 
Each spin must make one complete revolution in order to qualify. A contestant whose spin does not make a complete revolution is traditionally booed by the audience, and is required to spin again, except during a bonus spin, when the player's turn ends. However, if the bonus spin was also part of a spin-off, the contestant is required to spin again but does not have an opportunity to win any bonus money, similar to a tie-breaking spin after a bonus spin.
 
The optimal strategy for winning the showcase showdown (ignoring the value of the cash bonuses) is for the first player to stand on 70 cents or more, and for the second player to stand on 55 cents or more. In the event of ties, things are more complicated. In the event of a tie with the first player, the second player should stand on $0.70 or more. The third player should stand on 55 cents for a two-way tie and 70 cents for a three-way tie. [8]
 
The Showcase
 
At the end of the game, the two winners of the Showcase Showdowns play the Showcase. Before the introduction of the Showcase Showdown in 1975, and on half-hour episodes, the two contestants with the highest winnings advanced to the Showcase.
 
A "showcase" of prizes is presented and the top winner either places a bid on the total value of the showcase or passes the showcase to the runner-up, who is then required to make a bid. A second showcase is then presented and the contestant who had not bid on the first showcase makes their bid. Unlike the One Bid, the contestant bidding on the second showcase may bid the same amount their opponent did on the first showcase, since the two contestants are bidding on different prize packages.
 
The contestant who has bid nearer to the price of their own showcase without going over wins the prizes in his or her showcase. Any contestant who overbids is disqualified regardless of their opponent's result. A double overbid results in neither contestant winning his or her prizes.
 
Unlike One Bid, there is no additional bonus for a perfect bid. However, if the winner's difference is $250 or less away from the actual retail price of their own showcase without going over, the contestant wins both showcases. From 1974 to September 1998, the threshold was less than $100.

--------------------

Now you know everything about the Price is Right  :D
            John . . .

              

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 12:08:36 PM »
So on the Price is Right show, someone can guess $1 more than an existing price guess no matter what price range the item is in?

Another option would be that we have a sliding scale of minimum guess increments fro mexisting bids:
Up to $100 = $5 minimum increment / space between bids.
$100 - $250 = $10 minimum increment / space between bids.
$250 - $500 = $20 minimum increment / space between bids.
$500 and up = $30 minimum increment / space between bids.

Terry

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 03:22:36 PM »
So on the Price is Right show, someone can guess $1 more than an existing price guess no matter what price range the item is in?

No, and I've seen this happen. Each of the two showcases are a package of different items. If the first of the 2 showcase contestants gives a price, say $24,000 on the first showcase of items worth $16,000, and the second contestant in the showcase game knows that price given by the first contestant is over the price of their showcase, the second contestant after seeing their different showcase, say worth $19,000, can simply bid $1 and win their $19,000 showcase. The second contestant would have no chance to win both showcases by being under their showcase price by less than $250 ($18,750 to $19,000) or originally $100, but they would win $19,000 worth of stuff on a $1 bid. If the second bidder knows what they are doing, it works and has worked many times.

So, in auction contests, someone could guess $1 each time and if the final selling price was below all other guesses, they would win the contest, by as much as $1,000 for example on some phone, while another guess could have been $5 over the final auction price but out of contention. For example, the phone sells for $995 with the lowest real guess at $1,000, many others guessing over $1,000 and just one guess at $1. One guesser missed by $5 and loses but the person who was under but off by $994 wins.

Your idea of fixed increments would work based on the guess being submitted and not the final selling price of the phone but then you get into the problem of $5 being mandatory for a $99 guess but $10 being mandatory for a $101 guess. 5% would be best and would be close to the fixed scale you came up with.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 03:31:07 PM by TelePlay »
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Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 04:52:45 PM »
I've been holding off replying on this thread but will offer this.

It's beginning to sound complicated.  I think if we have to do math (percentages) when making a guess, it's not as fun any more.  By the looks of the Price is Right rules (without reading them) it looks like one has to be a lawyer to learn how to make a bid. 

I agree that closest to the price is good---whether over or under.

I'm sure we can come up with a simple way to distance one from another bidder.  Since we don't know in advance what the final price of the item in question is going to be, anyone's guess is good as another.  So if there's only $2 that separates two bidders and a third comes along, they can't guess a price between the two because they have to maintain a percentage amount of difference?  Sounds complicated.

Make a guess.  If you hit it or are closest to the final sale price you "win".  As long as no one duplicates a previously declared bid.

Just my opinion.  I'll go along with the crowd.

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Re: CRPF "Auction Contest" Rules
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 05:25:39 PM »
It's beginning to sound complicated.  I think if we have to do math (percentages) when making a guess, it's not as fun any more.

I agree that closest to the price is good---whether over or under.

Make a guess.  If you hit it or are closest to the final sale price you "win".  As long as no one duplicates a previously declared bid.

You're right, Dennis. It's just for fun. And if two or more people want to place the same guess, we have co-winners. The first two rules are good, the third adds the complexity, and reduces the fun.

Rule #1 Closest guess to the final selling price wins.
Rule #2 Guesses need to be in 24 Hours before the auction completes.
Rule #3 No Crowding! Attempt to leave existing guesses 5% or more "room"
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 10:27:14 PM by TelePlay »
            John . . .