Author Topic: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...  (Read 3129 times)

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 03:57:05 PM »
I just opened up the amp. plug (surprisingly easy actually, was expecting a battle!!) and it's all neatly put together, but no bridging between the lamp grounds... ???

Offline Adam

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 04:49:53 PM »
I just opened up the amp. plug ... no bridging between the lamp grounds

Yes, I believe only Western Electric did it that way.  ITT strapped the lamp grounds at the key, with a rather obvious unjacketed flat metal strip with 6 screw lugs.

Edit: Oh, I was describing the original, incandescent lamp version.  In the LED version, they're probably all just wired together internally beneath the LEDs.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 04:59:45 PM by Adam »
Adam Forrest
Los Angeles Telephone - A proud part of the global C*Net System
C*Net 1-383-4820

Offline poplar1

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 05:27:29 PM »
WE did the 564and 2564 that way (strapped lamp grounds) but the 565 and 2565 had separate leads. So the 564 had only 28 leads and the 565 50 if I recall after 20+ years.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Adam

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 06:07:29 PM »
Just to be clear, when I said:

Quote
I believe only Western Electric did it that way.

...I was referring to strapping the lamp grounds together in the plug on the mounting cord, and not at the other end in the set.

The major difference between the Western Electric 564 and the 565 is a thinner, 34 conductor line cord, instead of the normal 50 conductor (25 pair).  Individual Lamp Ground leads were omitted in the 564 to allow the lessor number of conductors in the mounting cord.  They also don't have all the violet pairs, which means this set is not meant to be used with a speakerphone.

I own two Western Electric 564HL sets in my collection, I love the skinny mounting cords.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 06:12:26 PM by Adam »
Adam Forrest
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Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2013, 06:13:02 PM »
WE did the 564and 2564 that way (strapped lamp grounds) but the 565 and 2565 had separate leads. So the 564 had only 28 leads and the 565 50 if I recall after 20+ years.

This one has several wires not connected and taped up (and not individually insulated), though I haven't counted them as the rats nest was rather confusing to look at... :D

I've fiddled with the buttons, and the black Recall one is set up as a Push-to-Break (so always on), and the red one is set as a Push-to-Make (always off), and I'm half tempted to disconnect them as I threaten to wrench them off every time I open the phone and investigate it's guts... :D

Offline Adam

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2013, 06:18:26 PM »
This one has several wires not connected and taped up (and not individually insulated)

This is common for key sets.

Quote
I'm half tempted to disconnect them

If you do, you will have to "remake" the connection that the normally closed button makes, by connecting the two points together that the button normally does.  From how you describe it, I'm relatively confident that's the "recall" or "flash" key, and removing it without making the connection it would normally make would make your set have no dial tone.

You can safely disconnect the normally open one.

I wouldn't, though, to either of them.  You have a neat set there with two factory options that are rarely seen in that combination.
Adam Forrest
Los Angeles Telephone - A proud part of the global C*Net System
C*Net 1-383-4820

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2013, 06:59:57 PM »
If you do, you will have to "remake" the connection that the normally closed button makes, by connecting the two points together that the button normally does.  From how you describe it, I'm relatively confident that's the "recall" or "flash" key, and removing it without making the connection it would normally make would make your set have no dial tone.

You can safely disconnect the normally open one.

I wouldn't, though, to either of them.  You have a neat set there with two factory options that are rarely seen in that combination.

Yeah, the Recall is easy, just move one of the wires off it and onto the G terminal on the network, and the other just disconnect entirely... :)

As for the factory installation, well, I would only be disconnecting them to prevent damaging them, and it is noted how they are connected, so can be restored in the future, if it ever gets used on a real 1A2 system (unlikely over here, unless I were to manage to find one cheap enough!!)... :)

Anyway, managed to map out some of the pairs from the amp. plug to terminals in the Nortel box, so managed to get all the LEDs lit up happily, just a shame they're always on rather than switched on with the according buttons, or flashing with incoming or held calls, but that's for future fettling... :)

Offline poplar1

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2013, 07:20:45 PM »
Just to be clear, when I said:

Quote
I believe only Western Electric did it that way.

...I was referring to strapping the lamp grounds together in the plug on the mounting cord, and not at the other end in the set.

The major difference between the Western Electric 564 and the 565 is a thinner, 34 conductor line cord, instead of the normal 50 conductor (25 pair).  Individual Lamp Ground leads were omitted in the 564 to allow the lessor number of conductors in the mounting cord.  They also don't have all the violet pairs, which means this set is not meant to be used with a speakerphone.

I own two Western Electric 564HL sets in my collection, I love the skinny mounting cords.

The WE 564HL is strapped inside the phone and in the plug on the D30D cord. This eliminates the need for the Red-Blue, Red-Brown, Black-Orange and Black-Slate to be in the mounting cord, yet allows 5 times as much current to flow back to the KSU since in the plug they are bonded together with the White-Green. (The current loss in the 6' mounting cord is negligible compared to the loss on a 200' station cable.)

The 564HK is strapped only inside the phone. The D30C cord does not have the straps in the plug.


502-525-410-i5-564HK-HL-connections.pdf
Figure 1 and Note 6


http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=4958&Itemid=2

« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 07:41:10 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2013, 07:50:49 PM »
If you do, you will have to "remake" the connection that the normally closed button makes, by connecting the two points together that the button normally does.  From how you describe it, I'm relatively confident that's the "recall" or "flash" key, and removing it without making the connection it would normally make would make your set have no dial tone.

You can safely disconnect the normally open one.

I wouldn't, though, to either of them.  You have a neat set there with two factory options that are rarely seen in that combination.

Yeah, the Recall is easy, just move one of the wires off it and onto the G terminal on the network, and the other just disconnect entirely... :)

As for the factory installation, well, I would only be disconnecting them to prevent damaging them, and it is noted how they are connected, so can be restored in the future, if it ever gets used on a real 1A2 system (unlikely over here, unless I were to manage to find one cheap enough!!)... :)

Anyway, managed to map out some of the pairs from the amp. plug to terminals in the Nortel box, so managed to get all the LEDs lit up happily, just a shame they're always on rather than switched on with the according buttons, or flashing with incoming or held calls, but that's for future fettling... :)

Since you are already disconnecting leads and documenting where they go--if you follow the diagram you will see that there is a path to the orange-white (A1) lead, through each line key (the third set of contacts in each key, the other two being for tip and ring) and through one set of hookswitch contacts. Normally, this is used to tell the KSU that a particular line has been selected and that the phone is off-hook. Thus, turning on the lamp for that line and taking the line off hold or idle or ringing state.

So you can "borrow" this path so that only one LED will be on, and only when you are off-hook.

(This is not license to paint an oxford gray WE 500 pink, or to strip the nickel a candlestick to see the purty brass underneath. Excusez-la.)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 08:07:31 PM »
The only wires I'm going to disconnect are for the two additional buttons, everything else I'm leaving as-is as I haven't a clue what they do... :D

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2013, 11:13:44 PM »
My brain BSOD'd when trying to work out the A1 lead thing, those circuit diagrams aren't easy to follow compared to the GPO's N-diagrams... ???

Anyway, time to encourage the technical discussion over this way to a thread in the right place... :D

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8674.0

Offline Adam

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2013, 01:08:37 AM »
I made these wiring diagrams a while back for someone who wanted to use a key set without a key system without modifying the phone.  I thought I had posted these here before but could not find them online.

You can create an adapter using this diagram by using a female 25 pair tail, or more elegantly, a 66E3-25 block you can find pretty easily on eBay.  These blocks are handy for this because it contains the jack for a key phone built right into it.  (See below.)

Please feel free to ask any questions these wiring diagrams might inspire.
Adam Forrest
Los Angeles Telephone - A proud part of the global C*Net System
C*Net 1-383-4820

Offline poplar1

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Re: Another phone - Cortelco Key system phone...
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2013, 08:13:22 AM »
Adam, this is a clever way to get dial tone and lamps that light up when you are on the line without rewiring the phone. Thanks for providing this.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.