Author Topic: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A  (Read 8595 times)

Offline poplar1

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A (or 634A or 302 base)
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 10:31:36 AM »
See Figure 1--51AL Sidetone Desk Stand For Sidetone Service (Manual and Dial)  [while using an anti-sidetone subset]. This is the one that no longer appeared in the 1946 addendum.
One certainly has to wonder why they removed it later, while retaining a circuit that has clear electrical deficiencies (loading the line heavily).

I seem to recall that the use of Figure 2 with its limitation of only one phone was for pay phone installations, where there were usually no extensions (except for some "semi-public" locations where the line was shared by a business owner).


There were different circumstances during and after the war: during the war, there were shortages of material and manufacturing facilities. After the war, there may have been the usual tendency to reuse, yet less need to prolong inferior technology. Desk stands (candlesticks) were still remanufactured until at least 1948, but were updated with F-1 transmitter units (635A "bulldog") and HA-1 receivers, the same units used in 302s.

"Due to shortage of materials and manufacturing facilities, a number of substitutions and changes are necessary in the list of station wiring supplies. Conserve all usable materials for reuse..." (WR-C24.021, Issue 2, 1-18-43.)

Cotton was substituted for rubber in cords (WR-C36.101/C63.701, Issue 2, 1-18-43) and for linoleum for rubber in floor mats for phone booths (WR-C44.121, Issue 1, 5-6-42).

Stainless steel was replaced by cold rolled steel for coin chutes; brass screws were instead made with zinc plated iron.  
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 10:34:29 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline G-Man

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 11:45:57 AM »
Quote
1) The first diagram is drawn according to BSP C63.373 Issue B 3-20-46 N.Y.Tel.Co.  This circuit provides some sidetone suppression on the ST set, but has the disadvantage that it permanently AC-loads the local loop with a very low impedance, so that no other stations or extensions may be connected to the same line.

I was unable to find BSP C63.373 Issue B 3-20-46 N.Y.Tel.Co. however I did find Addendum Issue B, 3-20-46 N.Y.Tel.Co.,M [Manhattan], appended to BSP C63.373, Issue 2, 3-1-2-37.




Offline G-Man

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 11:49:24 AM »
Quote
1) The first diagram is drawn according to BSP C63.373 Issue B 3-20-46 N.Y.Tel.Co.  This circuit provides some sidetone suppression on the ST set, but has the disadvantage that it permanently AC-loads the local loop with a very low impedance, so that no other stations or extensions may be connected to the same line.

I was unable to find BSP C63.373 Issue B 3-20-46 N.Y.Tel.Co. however I did find Addendum Issue B, 3-20-46 N.Y.Tel.Co.,M [Manhattan], appended to BSP C63.373, Issue 2, 3-1-2-37.


I forgot to add the link to the TCI Library…

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/3483-c63-373-i2-desk-stand-connections-cb


unbeldi

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 06:45:01 PM »
About the only way to find an "original" WE metal 534A subset on ebay---is to build it yourself!"
Well, I just had to test this theory....  and today I actually bought what appears as completely original 534, including the #46 coil, and enough dust.  What's more it came with a 202 Imperial, not connected, and clearly not a good match. But anyhow, a very nice golden Imperial with Tenite handset and great looking cords, plus an original 534 for a total of $72+sh.

Great deal, I remember paying $70 or so for just a 534A alone.


unbeldi

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 03:22:12 AM »
About the only way to find an "original" WE metal 534A subset on ebay---is to build it yourself!"
Well, I just had to test this theory....  and today I actually bought what appears as completely original 534, including the #46 coil, and enough dust.

I received the subset and the phone yesterday.  The subset turned out to actually be a 554-C with a date of 3-29 on the coil.  It is hard to find 554-C subsets, they come up much less frequently, I believe, and I am very pleased with the find.  The 554-C was used for 2-party line CB dial service and a 50-C desk stand.
So it is possible still to find even some uncommon original ST subsets.

Who has a 50-C or 51-C for me?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 12:02:07 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2014, 12:19:17 PM »
Here is a scan of the diagram from WR-C63.373. Unlike the NYT diagram, there is no restriction on the number of stations connected to the line.

Figure 1:
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 10:18:31 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2018, 03:38:11 PM »
Hello Poplar....

I'm starting on the 50AL/51AL with 3 wire harness instead of a 4 wire harness and a mini block in the base.

I found a couple of 51AL drawings.

Will you please tell me where the 3 wire harness attaches, where the connections to the dial are from and where the desk set cord wires go.

Thanks,
Gary

Offline poplar1

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2018, 04:18:19 PM »
Desk Stand Cord:
Green to GN on small block
Red to R on small block
Yellow to Y on dial

Receiver Cord:
Green to GN terminal on small block
White to W on dial

Harness:

Red from R on small block to R on hookswitch
Double blue from BB on dial to hookswitch (W or BB)
Black from BK on dial to transmitter

Other transmitter wire to YY on hookswitch

If using a 5H, 4H, 2H, or 6A dial:
Strap dial terminal BB to dial terminal R
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline scottfannin

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Re: Connecting a 51AL to a 684A
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2020, 03:57:34 PM »
Hope I did this right adding instead of starting a new message.  I've got a candlestick that may be a N51AL or perhaps is a frankenphone.  I followed everything in this post above here and I got diagrams from TCI and followed them.  I have a 684A that I've used plenty of times and know is working to use with it.  I wired that for sidetone for now but I'm not sure just what I've got in the candlestick.  It has what appears to be a Phillips for AE for Northern Electric dial.  I found a helpful picture on here which I will attach for everyone's convenience.  I've tried various combinations mostly using what I found here and the documents I am attaching to this post.  I can't find the right combination of where to wire things.  My picture shows one of my attempts, with the candlestick part and its wires removed since I wanted to check the leaves and since I found I got dial tone with or without the hook switch attached at all.  When I last tried, I got dial tone regardless of how I had the switch or even with it removed.  Dialing produced some clicks and then an automated "off hook" alarm sound.  I'd like to throw myself on your collective mercy and ask how to make the thing work with the Phillips dial.  Thanks.