Author Topic: new old rose 302  (Read 1880 times)

Offline cchaven

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new old rose 302
« on: March 13, 2013, 05:02:18 PM »
Last week just before going to bed, an auction popped up for an old rose 302 dated mid-1952.  It had a BIN price of $365....the case was open, no cracks in the cover or the handset  Well I passed on it, went to bed..and a few hours later when I got up, it was still there...so I bought it.  I received it today...the plastic is in nice condition, though a little discolored in places.  The mounting cord is badly frayed, as was already known.  No cracks anywhere, but now the cover is stuck to the base...and the reciever elements are stuck as well.  There's also a bit more wear on the dial face bjt overall I'm pretty happy.  I just hope I can get the case seperated again before it starts to crack.

Jeff

Offline DavePEI

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 06:05:01 PM »
Last week just before going to bed, an auction popped up for an old rose 302 dated mid-1952.  It had a BIN price of $365....the case was open, no cracks in the cover or the handset  Well I passed on it, went to bed..and a few hours later when I got up, it was still there...so I bought it.  I received it today...the plastic is in nice condition, though a little discolored in places.  The mounting cord is badly frayed, as was already known.  No cracks anywhere, but now the cover is stuck to the base...and the reciever elements are stuck as well.  There's also a bit more wear on the dial face bjt overall I'm pretty happy.  I just hope I can get the case seperated again before it starts to crack.

Jeff
Hi Jeff:

Lovely looking phone. Just be gentle as you pry it loose from its case. It will be the corners which will hold it. Pry gently on one side, then on the other - back and forth - don't force it, and it should come loose ok. After, file down the corners on the metal base to free it up when you put it back together. This is better than removing plastic, as it will retain its strength.

If it should happen to crack as you do it, fill the crack quickly with crazy glue, as that will help to keep the crack from spreading.

Good luck!

Dave
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Offline Nick in Manitou

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 06:11:23 PM »
Does bakelite expand at all with heat?  Would it help to warm the shell with a hair-dryer prior to trying to lift it off the base?

Please note...I am asking a question, not suggesting this method unless we hear from others who know more about this than I do.

Offline DavePEI

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 06:15:24 PM »
Does bakelite expand at all with heat?  Would it help to warm the shell with a hair-dryer prior to trying to lift it off the base?

Please note...I am asking a question, not suggesting this method unless we hear from others who know more about this than I do.
Well, first of all, it isn't bakelite - it is thermoplastic (Kodak's Tenite as David mentions below). WE didn't use bakelite on 302 cases. Slight, even heat probably wouldn't hurt... It shouldn''t damage it, anyway. Too much heat, though will melt the plastic. A little judiciously applied heat might allow the plastic to stretch a bit, though I haven't tried it.

Dave
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:52:24 PM by DavePEI »
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Offline poplar1

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 06:15:54 PM »
These are actually Tenite.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 07:33:18 PM »
Does bakelite expand at all with heat?  Would it help to warm the shell with a hair-dryer prior to trying to lift it off the base?


Be extremely careful with heat.  With a hair dryer you have no control over temperature. You don't know the internal temperature of the plastic.  Tenite is a thermoplastic and has a flow temperature not that much hotter than boiling water, perhaps 150 C.  If you overheat the plastic in just small spots from a jet of hot air you could rupture the shell because internal stress can be released by the softening.
In any case, heating the Tenite will cause weight loss immediately. Normally it absorbs water from the air and that will be released first, in addition to causing further breakdown.  Tenite breaks down into water and carbon dioxide and the heat just drives it out. You cannot "stretch" the shell with heat. That may be possible to a degree when the material is fresh, but after 60 years it is intrinsically brittle, because of the weight loss over the years.

Tenite can be warmed and reshaped and welded, but you have to make sure this happens in thermal equilibrium internally and with the controlled heat source.  After 60 years these shells have so much internal stress built up that they warp and deform on their own even at room temperature. Softening some portions of the shell could cause warping very quickly.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:51:58 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »
Last week just before going to bed, an auction popped up for an old rose 302 dated mid-1952.  It had a BIN price of $365....the case was open, no cracks in the cover or the handset  Well I passed on it, went to bed..and a few hours later when I got up, it was still there...so I bought it.  I received it today...the plastic is in nice condition, though a little discolored in places.  The mounting cord is badly frayed, as was already known.  No cracks anywhere, but now the cover is stuck to the base...and the reciever elements are stuck as well.  There's also a bit more wear on the dial face bjt overall I'm pretty happy.  I just hope I can get the case seperated again before it starts to crack.

Jeff

I have to say you beat me to it.  I woke up that morning wanting to take it and it was gone.

I think it may not actually crack for a long time if you just leave it on the metal. The metal supports it to a degree.  I have not proof of this, as I haven't had one for a long time, but the most likely reason for them to crack is actually taking them off the metal.  This releases stress withing the housing, causing strain on the shell that is larger than what the material can bear... and it cracks after you take it off.  The harder it is to get the housing off the base, the higher the chance of the housing cracking, because it has lost its structural support, so to speak.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:48:56 PM by unbeldi »

Offline jsowers

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 10:16:35 PM »
I have a phone collector friend in California and he got a Pekin Red 302 as a BIN a few years ago and needed to change out one of the cords. The housing was stuck on the base. I told him to leave it in a hot car for a few hours and then see if it came loose from the base. It did.

I don't think he left it in direct sunlight, just on the seat of the car. It may not be that warm where you are right now, so you might have to wait for summer weather to try that. Heat expands, and you don't need a lot of it or a lot of expansion to get the housing loose. Just a couple hours, so it gets good and warm all over.

You can also try loosening the handset caps then too. But first be sure all the dirt has been cleaned out of the area where the cap meets the handset. Just a little bit of goo and dirt there will keep caps from coming loose.
Jonathan

Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 10:27:17 PM »
I would try to avoid heat.  Instead, I would turn the phone upside-down and spray a small amount of lubricant, like WD40, into the space between the shell and the base.  After an hour or two, I would try to gently slide the shell off of the base.  After the shell is far from the base, I would bang the sides of the base with a plastic head hammer to bend them inward.  I did this with my ivory plastic 302.

Larry

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2013, 12:21:05 AM »
I put my rose 251 in the oven set to warm (170 degrees Fahrenheit) for 15 minutes and it popped right off. 
Greg Sargeant
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Offline cchaven

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2013, 04:41:14 AM »
Thanks for the tips everyone.  I'm not going to rush this.  The reason I bought this one was because it had no cracks or breaks in the casing.  Both handset caps come off but the receiver element is stuck tight inside the handset and the transmitter element is stuck tight inside it's cap

Jeff

Offline cchaven

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2013, 04:43:12 AM »
I have to say you beat me to it.  I woke up that morning wanting to take it and it was gone.

Funny that we both saw it early and decided to sleep on it.  Ebay is definately a lot of being just at the right place at the right time.

Jeff

Offline George Knighton

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 11:52:29 AM »
Oh, my goodness you guys are scaring me!

Bakelite.  Thermoplastic.  Tenite.  Bake it in the oven.  Bake it in the car.  Spray it with WD40.

: thud :

LOL....
Annoying new poster.

Offline George Knighton

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 11:53:48 AM »
Last week just before going to bed, an auction popped up for an old rose 302 dated mid-1952.  

Congratulations.  :-)  I've got an Old Rose, too, and it's one of my very favorites.  I like it much better than Pekin Red.  Just sorts of fits into more environments, not as gaudy as real red.

Would love to find a green one, but I don't care if I ever get a Pekin Red. 
Annoying new poster.

Offline cchaven

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Re: new old rose 302
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2013, 12:07:55 PM »
Thanks George...the old rose is an interesting color.  I think all of the colored 302's look pretty sharp and there have been a number of red and ivory ones sell lately, far more than the old rose.  I did watch a blue and a green sell for stupid amounts as well.  I already have an ivory, so this one will make a nice companion to it.  Neither are perfect, but neither are broken or cracked either.

Jeff