Author Topic: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.  (Read 7768 times)

Offline Brinybay

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Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« on: April 17, 2013, 04:31:55 PM »
I want to check out this stick I've had for a while but never hooked up.  I have two different subsets I can use.  It's not known if the subsets actually function, there's no notes I made one way or another, which means I haven't tested those either.

I just need to know which wire goes where, from phone to subset, and also the line cord.  One subset is a 634-BA, the other is a 684-A.  The cord on the phone is a 3 conductor.

The stick itself is a 151 AL with a 4H dial.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 04:34:34 PM by Brinybay »
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southernphoneman

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 04:33:35 PM »
I want to check out this stick I've had for a while but never hooked up.  I have two different subsets I can use.  It's not known if the subsets actually function, there's no notes I made one way or another, which means I haven't tested those either.

I just need to know which wire goes where, from phone to subset, and also the line cord.  One subset is a 634-BA, the other is a 684-A.  The cord on the phone is a 3 conductor.

The stick itself is a 151 AL with a 4H dial.
let us know how it works because I am curious myself. ;)

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 04:54:40 PM »
You are using antisidetone subsets with a sidetone phione (having 3 wires).  That's ok, it will work just fine.

From the desk set to the subset:

Red to R in the subset
Green to GN in the subset
Yellow to L2/Y in the subset

I believe you will want to connect the BK to L2 Y in the subset with the sidetone phone.  I am not at home where I have notes on this, so perhaps someone else can chime in on that final point.  Even if you don't connect BK to anything else in the subset, it should still work ok.  Strapping BK to the other point will make it talk a little louder at the other end.
-Bill G

Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 05:07:19 PM »
The 151-AL is anti-sidetone, so it can be used with either a sidetone subset (534A, 584A, 295A) or with an anti-sidetone subset (634BA, 684A, etc.)

The cord pictured connected to the 684A appears to be correct:

Red to R
Green to GN
Yellow to Y/L2
Black to BK

Connect line to L1 (red) and L2 (green).

If using an anti-sidetone set (50-AL, 51AL, 102) with a sidetone subset:

Red to R
Green to GN
Yellow to Y/L2
tape and store the black lead on the subset end

Normally, you don't want to use a sidetone set (20-AL, 50-AL, 51-AL, 102 with 3-wire cord) with an anti-sidetone subset. Even though you could connect the black condenser wire to Y/L2, this is not advisable unless you have only 1 or maximum 2 ringers on the line, because it loads the line.  Also, the condenser may be damaged over time.

Your metal subset is a 634BA because it has a 4300 ohm ringer instead of a 1000 or 1400 ohm. That's a good ringer because you can have more phones ringing on your line with high impedance ringers.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 05:45:33 PM by poplar1 »
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 06:29:34 PM »
Here is a picture of the cording for a 151-AL (except that the red wire needs to move to the R on the terminal block and the black wire needs to be on BK of the dial).
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 06:46:57 PM »
On this one, the cord leads are correct, even though there is no dial.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Brinybay

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 06:50:40 PM »


The cord pictured connected to the 684A appears to be correct

Funny you should point that out.  I've had this thing so long I must have connected it to something at one time, then packed it away w/o any notes.  I have a thread here somewhere, now that I think about it, when I found that subset a year ago.  The antique store owner, old guy in his 70s, didn't know what it was, thought it was some sort of misc electronic doo-dad, so he put it in with the radios.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 06:52:25 PM by Brinybay »
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Offline Brinybay

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 03:14:35 PM »
I decided to replace the original cord with a repro 4-conductor I had due to the original not having spade ends and just bare fragile wire. Turns out the original is also 4 conductor, just that somebody in the past cut the extra conductor off that goes to the subset. So I'm assuming that the 4-conductor repro will be ok to use, just tape off the extra conductor on the subset end. The phone end appeared to have used all 4.

The colors are only slightly different. Old cord has blue/grey, yellow, green, red. New cord has black, yellow, green, red. The red on the old cord was the one they snipped off at the subset end.

I know electrically speaking, the color doesn't matter, but I want to be consistent with the color codes that were used.  I'm assuming the black on the new would go where the blue/grey lead went.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 03:24:56 PM by Brinybay »
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 03:22:43 PM »
Move the blue-gray lead (former black) from RR to BK on the dial. Connect other end to BK terminal in the subset where the black condenser wire is.

Also, move the yellow line cord lead to B/Y where the blue hookswitch wire is.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 03:40:58 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2013, 03:26:00 PM »
Can you show a picture of the hookswitch connections? Since there is a blue lead in the mounting cord, this may be a 51C or 151C instead of a 151AL?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Brinybay

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2013, 03:28:28 PM »
Move the blue-gray lead (former black) from RR to BK on the dial. Connect other end to BK terminal in the subset where the black condenser wire is.

Also, move the yellow line cord lead to B where the blue hookswitch wire is.

The picture shows how the old cord leads were hooked up, but I get what you're saying.  I'm going to swap the dial out too with another 4H I have.
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Offline Brinybay

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2013, 03:31:04 PM »
Can you show a picture of the hookswitch connections? Since there is a blue lead in the mounting cord, this may be a 51C or 151C instead of a 151AL?

These?
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2013, 03:40:17 PM »
Yes, that's a 151-AL switch.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Mr. Bones

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2013, 05:58:13 PM »
     Thanks a lot for this very detailed, and informative thread, all! I'm learning some important stuff for the future.

     I have a slightly off-topic, but definitely related question that I have not seen addressed elsewhere:

     Is there any valid reason why one cannot hook two (or more) desk sets to one subset?

     At my house, I can see none, since only one would be off the hook at a time, which would be normal operating load on the subset.

     I would also think that even two off the hook at a time would be a nominal difference, perhaps causing a reduction in RX/TX volume, but am standing by to be corrected / enlightened, as necessary.

     Thanks in advance, and Happy Friday!

Best regards!

Terrence
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 05:38:29 PM by Mr. Bones »
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Offline poplar1

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Re: Testing one of my sticks with two subsets.
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2013, 12:27:31 AM »
If you are using a sidetone subset (such as Western Electric 295A, 534A, or 584A), you can hook multiple candlesticks or 102s to one subset, using 3-conductor cords from the phone and triple (3-conductor) inside wire from the subset.

However, if you are using an an anti-sidetone subset (4-conductors to phone) such as WE 634A or 684A, you cannot use more than one 202 or 151AL. This is because the red and black wires from the subset  would go to the  transmitter in each phone, so that when you are talking on one phone, the transmitter in the other room would pick up all the room noise of that room, even if the second phone was not off hook.

Western Electric did make special phones with extra contacts (R and RH in a 202, for example) that would disconnect the transmitter whenever the phone was hung up. These are not easy to find.

There are other ways to isolate the red lead by adding your own extra contacts or using a relay.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 12:29:03 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.