Author Topic: Autophone of Wimbeldon England - Uniselector Electro-Mechanical PAX  (Read 5948 times)

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7504
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Went to my retirement "Beer-Up" last night with the other 18 guys who are retiring at the same time as myself and a few hundred co-workers, managers and already retired people from our past. It was a lot of fun!

One guy has a bunch of pictures on his phone from a recent install they did in a 100 year old business still in the original building. This abandoned system was still on the wall so he took pictures knowing that I would be interested.

I have never seen one of these units before so I am guessing that it is just a PAX (intercom). Does anyone recognize it or have a guess who the manufacturer is?

It obviously has 4 "LF" Line finder rotary line switches on the top left and 4 "FS" Final Selectors (?) on the top right. It likely has 4 talk paths and potentially 25 stations. The Station numbering is a bit odd according to the Line relays: 21-27, 91-90 & 71-78.

Does "Fianal Selector" imply British or did most of Europe use that terminology. We did use a LOT of British equipment here in British Columbia and Canada back in the fist half of the 19xx's. Of course AE made a lot of automatic systems back then too but it doesn't look AE to me.

Anyone got any guesses? Someone want to help me attempt to gain ownership of this one real soon?

Terry
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 03:27:28 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline G-Man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 12:41:54 AM »
German PAX, possibly Siemens; also possible that it was imported by U.S.I. which was eventually absorbed by Stromberg Carlson which continued to distribute the line.

There were several other European manufacturers that could have manufactured it as well. I’ll have to take a closer look at my European  PAX’s the next time I get a chance to visit my storage units.

The European fuses and relays are saying it did not originate on these shores but without viewing additional markings I cannot vouch 100-percent for the above.

Steph Kerman on the TCI list most likely would be able to pin down the manufacturer.

Offline G-Man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 12:55:14 AM »
Some additional thoughts-

It is a very desirable piece and worth several hundred dollars to the right collectors.

Possibly British Siemens using designs/assemblies from their German brethren.

It would be nice if we could see a clearer image of the markings on the electrolytic capacitor or of any on the transformers and other components though they could have been supplied/replaced by U.S.I. or S.C.

In addition to Steph Kerman, try Jeremy Walters. I believe Jeremy may also be knowledgeable as well and it wouldn’t hurt to ask either of them.

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7504
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 01:04:32 AM »
Thanks G-man. I forwarded the link to Jeremy earlier so he will likely take a look soon as well. I tried zooming in on the capacitor and can almost read the writing but didn't see any clues on it. That is it for pictures and picture quality for the moment but I will attempt to arrange a visit myself this week.

It has been a good week. I found and removed my second Ericsson 636 Crossbar PAX on Tuesday or Wednesday and now have a lead on this one! Here is a topic on my first 636 PAX:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15797.0

Terry
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 02:27:57 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline John2327

  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 02:34:39 PM »
This PAX was manufactured by Autophone of Wimbeldon London England. It uses GPO No.2 Uniselectors and a version of the GPO 3000 type relays with an armature which was clippped on instead of the normal screw fixing. It has German style fuses.
Regards,
John Mulrane. 

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7504
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 11:34:36 PM »
Hi John!

Good to see you here on the CRPF. Welcome!

Do you have any idea of the timeframe when these would have been made? If it has 3000 type relays that must arrow it down a bit.

I did go visit this unit again in late May but didn't have the opportunity to take pictures or to remove it at that time. The negotiations were done though and it is mine for $100.

I will go collect it sometime before the end of August. The silver box on the wall below it with pop cans sitting on top turned out to be the power supply for the PAX.

Terry
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 11:30:59 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline John2327

  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 04:38:11 AM »
Hi Terry,
These would have been made in the 50/60's. The relay would have been a version of the 3000 type relay which were made from the 1920's onwards. The 3000 type relay was based on a German standard relay which I think was developed by Siemens & Halske. This relay was used in the German Reichspost "System 22" (1922). The Uniselectors are similar to the GPO No.2. There are some slight differences that I have noticed one being the detent arrangement. There were a number of telphone component manufacturers in England besides the large ones such as ATM, GEC and Siemens Brothers and I would suspect that the components came from them. Autophone also imported a lot of parts from Germany particularly Telefonbau und Normalzeit (T&N), hence the use of the German style fuses. I will post some pictures later so you can see the differences.
Regards,
John

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7504
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 11:18:11 AM »
Thanks again for the additional information John.

So the Uniselectors are the 8 rotary switches on the top? Is my assumption correct that the 4 on the left are Line Finders (LF designation) and the 4 on the right are Connectors (F'S - Final Selectors?) ?

I thought that the station numbering was somewhat odd assuming that it follows the numbering on the relays,  21-27, 91-90 & 71-78.

This was installed by a local Vancouver company RSE - Radio Service Engineers. From what I have seen they installed all sorts of telephone based intercom and paging systems in private systems likely in the 50's, 60's and maybe into the 70's. most of the equipment they installed appeared to be from Europe.

I can't wait to see and hear it working!

Terry
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 11:39:31 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline John2327

  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 05:27:43 PM »
Hi Terry,
Yes you are correct, The LF is Line Finder and the FS is the Final Selector (Connector in NA). It is a 25 line PAX and the Uniselectors are 25 outlet and  it would probably work as follows;
21-27 is 7 extns so it would use outlets 3-9 on the FS.
91-90 would use outlets 10-19 on the FS.
71-78 would use outlets 20-25 and 1-2 on the FS.
Dialling 7 as a first digit would cause the FS to hunt to outlet 19 and then the second digit would use 20-25, 1-2 for the remaining 8 extns.
I am attaching some maintenance instructions on the PO Uniselector No. 2, 3 and 3000 type relays.
Regards,
John.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:30:50 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline John2327

  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 05:32:55 PM »
Hi Terry,
Here are the other two attachments.
Regards,
John.

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7504
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2013, 02:03:02 AM »
it would probably work as follows;
21-27 is 7 extns so it would use outlets 3-9 on the FS.
91-90 would use outlets 10-19 on the FS.
71-78 would use outlets 20-25 and 1-2 on the FS.
Dialling 8 as a first digit would cause the FS to hunt to outlet 20 and then the second digit would use 20-25-1-2. for the remaining 8 extns.

Hi John:

Thanks again for the info. That sort of explains the crazy station numbering of this PAX. I am thinking it is a typo where you said dialing an "8" would casue the FS to hunt to outlet 20....you meant to say dialing a "7"? Or am I not following correctly?  So that is the only bit of magic in this system, where they set it up somehow so that a leading "7" actually progresses to outlet 20 rather than to 7. I assume the selectors move with each dialed digit, they don't wait for two digits to be dialed before springing into action. So dialing a 7 would casue the FS to progress to outlet 7 where it would normally wait for the second digit to carry on but in this one case something then tells it to continue up to outlet 20 and then wait for the second dialled digit.

Terry
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 02:05:05 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline John2327

  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 08:39:09 AM »
Hi Terry,
Yes, that was a Typo. This type of numbering scheme was quite common on PAX's made in Germany. I have a 30 line DeTeWe PAX made in Germany in 1968 which uses a similar arrangement. It uses 0, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, 10-19, 20-29 and 31, 32 and 33. Numbers 7, 8 and 9 can also be used for tie line working. when you dial 1, 2 or 3 the connector hunts on to the appropiate outlet and then the second digit is dialled.
Regards,
John.

Offline GTC

  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Electro-Mechanical PAX - Identification needed
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 09:19:47 AM »
The negotiations were done though and it is mine [f]or $100.

Bargain, methinks!   :)