Author Topic: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...  (Read 8742 times)

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2013, 04:47:43 PM »
Dial is back together, properly lubed, and all the contacts gauge within spec according to the SC shop manual I posted using feeler gauges.  It's nice and smooth now.

HOWEVER...

The Leich wiring diagrams show a 4-wire harness from the circuit to the dial's 5 contact points, colours W,G,Y and an unspecified color 4th wire.  Here is a blown up view of that part of the diagram:

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

My Kellogg 21D (clone of an A-E 51-A dial) has six contact terminals.  Two of the terminals are shunted together (This matches Leich the wiring diagram that shows terminals 2 and 3 shunted together with the Green wire connected to this shunted pair).

Here is a pic (prior to cleaning) showing my terminal layout:

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

Here is a pic I found in another online reference showing the typical 51-A dial connection layout, but is also shows only 5 terminals, 2 of which are shunted.  No mention of the 6th terminal I have.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

I'm assuming that terminals 1 and 2 on my dial correspond to terminals BK* and GN* respectively, which are the top 2 contacts on the Leich diagram.  Terminal 3 would not be connected to anything, only shunted to terminal 2. 

This is where I'm getting uncertain. Which terminals on my dial correspond to RD* and WH*?  I think that RD* = Y on the leich diagram and WH* is the bottom-most contact on the Leich diagram running to network position 8. 

So...
is RD* terminal 4, or 5?
is WH* terminal 5 or 6?

I believe WH* = network position 8 = terminal 6, but I am much less sure about RD*.

I'm leaning towards RD* = terminal 4 because when the pawl is at rest, terminal 4 is totally disconnected, while the spring attached to terminal 5 touches the pawl which is connected the the central dial shaft, which could energize the finger wheel (?). 

when the dial is at rest, terminals 5 and 6 are connected through the springs.  Terminal 4 is not connected to any other terminal and terminal 3 and 2 are shunted.  When dialing, terminals 2, 3, 4 and 5 are connected while terminal 6 is isolated.

Hopefully someone can let me know since I don;t have access to a pulse line yet to test different configurations.

Now off to the shop to solder up a wiring harness for the dial...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:17:31 PM by TelePlay »

Offline G-Man

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2013, 05:08:24 PM »
Dial is back together, properly lubed, and all the contacts gauge within spec according to the SC shop manual I posted using feeler gauges.  It's nice and smooth now.


Do you have a link for the Shop Manual? I didn’t realize until now that one is available on-line that shows the correct contact spacing. While it would be nice to have that information I am a bit confused to your reference to a SC shop manual though.

Thanks

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2013, 05:50:09 PM »
Look two posts above - I posted the link.  The manual is for Stromberg-Calrson phones, but covers most of the AE dial models.  Most tolerances are in the .015 to .018" range.  It's toward the end of the manual.

Offline poplar1

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2013, 05:53:58 PM »
This is Kellogg Mike's "Stromberg-Carlson" web site, but since this is scanned from  GTE Practices, it covers AE dials. Nothing to do with S-C. GTE owned AE.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 05:57:04 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2013, 06:34:08 PM »
Just ignore terminal 6 on the dial.

It is there for use with a Western Electric 302 or with a North 6H6 that is factory equipped for a WE dial. The WE dial opens the receiver; AE, Kellogg and others shunt the receiver. This dial can do either. It may have been a Signal Corps dial so that it could be used on any kind of phone.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2013, 08:11:04 PM »
Interestingly, I got it working before I read your post :)  I had to remember the change the hookswitch lead from 10 to 11 and, it turns out, I used terminals 4 and 6 for leads RD* and WH* respectively.  It's terminal 5 (on my numbered photograph) that I did not use.  Leaving terminal 5 as the blank allows the phone to work brilliantly, sould I be concerned that I didn't use 6 instead?

I think this one is now done - and it looks and works beautifully.  I have to get a line extension tomorrow so I can put it where it will see daily service.

Now I have to get started on the 653 phone.  It's going to need a few parts as I cannibalized it a little to get the 901 up and running.

Loving the simple enamel dial with plain digits.  Very minimalistic.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

And by the way, completely tearing the dial down for a clean, lube and adjust according to the "GTE" manual was a fantastic idea - it works so much better now :)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:18:10 PM by TelePlay »

Offline G-Man

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2013, 10:07:37 PM »
Thanks popular1, I was wondering what Stromberg Carlson suddenly had to do with Automatic Electric.

Here is the same practice (it’s not a manual) from the TCI site:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/70-gsp-997-300-500-i4-mar79-rotary-dials-shop-procedure

And Claven2, it's great that you a classic instrument up and running. Sadly they are not the most popular kids on the block and are often neglected.

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2013, 10:54:01 PM »
Thanks popular1, I was wondering what Stromberg Carlson suddenly had to do with Automatic Electric.

Here is the same practice (it’s not a manual) from the TCI site:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/70-gsp-997-300-500-i4-mar79-rotary-dials-shop-procedure

And Claven2, it's great that you a classic instrument up and running. Sadly they are not the most popular kids on the block and are often neglected.

Thanks :)  I have no idea why these phones are not better regarded.  The Leich 901 has great classic lines and very attractive bakelite.  The handset is also aesthetically very nice.  Frankly, I much prefer the 901's lines ot the ubiquitous WE500.

The Leich 653 I have is in MUCH worse condition, though the base and casing are sound and it does actually work.  I think I'm going to restore it to the original hookswitch latch configuration and use it as a dial-less phone, assuming I can get the needed parts.  I'll have to strip and re-paint the dial blank - it's pretty rough, but all there. I also need to solder on a new wiring harness, the old one is pretty frayed.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 02:36:53 PM by Claven2 »

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2013, 02:35:13 PM »
In other news, have made and rec'd  my first calls on the new phone.  I had thought my VOIP router (Scientific Atlantic on a Rogers Home Phone dedicated VOIP network) was NOT pulse compatible.  I was wrong - it works with pulse dialling!  I may still install the dialgizmo when it gets here so I can do # and * dialling though.  Had I know in advance, I would not have ordered it.  Oh well.

The phone is nice and clear - much clearer reception than I expected given the vintage of the phone.  The only down side is my daughter is complaining about the acoustic shock she gets if she leaves the handset up to her ear when the other party hangs up first.

I think all these phones suffer from that, no?  I can't remember all that well - it's been YEARS since I last actually used a vintage rotary phone.

Offline poplar1

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2013, 09:18:28 PM »
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).

Looking at the photo of the Kellogg dial: Do contacts 5 and 6 open when dialing, and 3,4,5 close when dialing? If so, then a wire connected from 8 in the phone to 6 on the dial, when nothing is connected to 5 on the dial, appears to have no purpose.





"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2013, 10:09:50 PM »
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).

Looking at the photo of the Kellogg dial: Do contacts 5 and 6 open when dialing, and 3,4,5 close when dialing? If so, then a wire connected from 8 in the phone to 6 on the dial, when nothing is connected to 5 on the dial, appears to have no purpose.







Contacts 5 and 6 are connected to each other when dialling, so I believe you can connect to either now that I've looked at it closer.

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2013, 10:10:58 PM »
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).

I'm assuming adding varistors was a later phenomenon?  Certainly this phone never had one back in the day. 

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2013, 12:41:12 PM »
To reduce acoustic shock, you can always add a varistor in parallel with the receiver (terminals 4 and 5 in the phone).

I'm assuming adding varistors was a later phenomenon?  Certainly this phone never had one back in the day. 

Oh, also, do you know what voltage varistor I would need? 

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2013, 09:05:53 PM »
Making a little progress on phone No.2 now.  Stripped it all down to clean it.  Some of the rusty parts are soaking in evaporust to get them back into shape.  Phone 2 has good bones if I can get the missing parts.  The casing is pretty good, though one of the convertible prongs has a hairline in it.  I've glued it with CA, though will probably put another coat on the surface before sanding the area and buffing.  Should be basically invisible.  About .75" long, and not all the way through. 

The baseplate, while bakelite, looks to perhaps be an earlier one.  For example, the plate is molded for hex nuts, but all the nuts on it are of the early round type as seen on the brass-based phones. 

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

All the recessed machine screw were way rusted, and one was missing.  I made a replacement screw on the lathe for the missing one and the rest cleaned up nicely after an evaporust bath.

Here you can see where they, and their lock washers, were rusted into the baseplate.  (since cleaned up)

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

Check out how rough the condenser is.  Will need replacing methinks, though surprisingly it does still work.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

Looking pretty naked. Notice also a rubber foot is missing.  Two of the feet are OK, one is a bit deformed and one is MIA. 

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

Here's the network with the old induction coil from the other phone mounted.  Pretty dirty/ratty, but it will clean up.  I'll likely replace the induction coil if I source a better one.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

A fair bit of surface rust on some of the metal bits, but it will come off.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

The ringer is OK.  I've since cleaner the bells and scrubbed off the light surface rust.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:37:01 PM by TelePlay »

Offline Claven2

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Re: So now I have 2 Leich 901's on the way...
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2013, 09:42:24 PM »
At a bit of an impasse until I get more parts, other than maybe making some wiring harnesses. 

The subset is all back together and re-installed, as is the ringer assembly.  The old induction coil is still in place until I source a new one.  Haven't put the old condenser back on - it's just too rough to save.

Notice almost all evidence of the rust is gone - magic!  ;D

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

The hairline in the shell has been glued, sanded and buffed.  You can see it due to the bright flaw in this picture, but in-hand it's almost invisible and is in a non-obvious location.  Only goes about 1/2 way through the handset hook.

  ( dead external image link 11/8/17 )

I know I'm nuts to restore 901's - likely I have more in them than they are worth - but it has been a fun and learning experience so far.  I love the one I already have in service.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:22:20 PM by TelePlay »