Author Topic: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets  (Read 1510 times)

Offline 5415551212

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2021, 10:32:49 PM »
Well thats even more of a reason to get this documented, so future collectors can resurrect 1A systems.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2021, 11:57:41 AM »
Thank you for the info! that answers my question.... so the scheme could be applied to a 25 pair cable? this is what I came up with as far as the order the cabling could have been in, is there any documentaion to support my theory? this is all based on 5 pair groups.

1. You have tip and ring backwards for all the blacks. Tip is black, ring is yellow.
2. I find no evidence of a "pink/slate" pair anywhere
3. The designations for the right column (T R H B LG L) are correct for the current color code. However, on older sets, the lamp leads are separate from the T R H(A) B(A1) leads.
4. The colors for the mounting cord and the "inside wire" (cable from the Key Equipment to the telephone set) are the same in the current color code (W-B/B-W; W-O/O-W etc.) However, in the old color codes, the mounting cord and the inside wire are different.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Key2871

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2021, 12:28:04 PM »
I think perhaps the red faded to pink. Or another color faded to pink.
I've seen older wires that have faded to other colors, usually not real bad, but yes I have been there where it's hard to decifer the color because she had changed the original.
KEN

Offline poplar1

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2021, 01:09:52 PM »
                          TABLE B

Pair No.          Key Cable                                  Connecting Block
                 C Inside    D Inside              Term No.  Cord Cond     Block No.
                  Wiring       Wiring                                Color

1                 BL             BL                      1               R     
                   W              W                      2               G
                                                                                                   1 (Cord Butt)
2                  O              O                       4               Y
                   W              W                       5             BK

3                 G               G                        6             BL
                   W              W                       7              W

4                 BR            BR                       9             BR-R
                   W              W                      10            BR-G

5                  S              S                        3             BR-Y
                   W              W                       8             BR-BK
________________________________________ _________________________________

6                BL-W          BL                       1             BR-BL
                     W             R                       2              BR-W

7               BL-O            O                        4             R-G
                   W              R                        5             R-Y
                                                                                                           2
8               BL-G            G                        6            R-BK
                   W              R                        7             R-BL

9               BL-BR          BR                       9            R-W
                   W               R                       10           G-Y

10             BL-S             S                         3            G-BK
                   W               R                        8             G-BL
________________________________________ ____________________________

11             O-W            BL                        1             G-W
                  W              BK                        2             Y-BK

12             O-G              O                        4             Y-BL
                 W               BK                        5             Y-W
                                                                                                             3
13             O-BR            G                        6              BK-BL
                  W              BK                        7              BK-W

14             O-S             BR                       9               BL-W
                  W               BK                      10                 S

15             G-W              S                        3               S-R
                   W              BK                       8               S-G
________________________________________ ___________________________

16             G-BR           BL                        1               S-Y
                   W              Y                         2               S-BK

17             G-S             O                         4               S-BL
                  W               Y                         5                 -

18            BR-W            G                         6              S-W
                 W                Y                         7                -                      4 (Cable Butt)

19           BR-S             BR                       9               S-BR
                 W                Y                       10                 -

20            S-W              S                         3               BR
                 W               Y                          8                -
________________________________________ ____________________________

From C33.545 Issue 9, Feb. 1956, Connecting Blocks, page 26
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2021, 10:11:25 PM »
 :) thank you for the update... that helps! and there is a BSP reference also! wonderful! Thank you....
John

Offline Dan F

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2021, 01:53:11 AM »
Have fun everyone

attached pdf file I created some time ago

Offline 5415551212

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2021, 11:45:24 AM »
Thanks thats a nice PDF now we just need one with the old codes. :)
If I recall correctly;
Under layers and layers of abandoned cables in an old eye doctor office I was working on,  I did run across what resembles the 40 pair in a brown jacket.
It was something I had not seen. I should have saved a piece.

It would be interesting to see some photos of actual cables with these color codes.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2021, 05:21:49 PM »
C33.545 issue 8 is in TCI library. Unlike my issue 9, issue 8 shows the cable colors for the first 76 pairs in Table A. The pre-1954 colors are in the column marked "Inside Wire C." The new 1954 colors  are for "Inside Wire D."
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2021, 06:08:23 PM »
its interesting to read the BSP. the color code for the IW is still the same, though the line cords have been broiugh up to current standards..... I keep seeing "Double Red" and similar doubles in the list, how a tech could ever keep trak is  beyond me.... I have a few old multiconductor line cords and trying to ID them is hard, the colors are so faded with time that I can't even use them... the newer cords with the black jackets are easy to ID, though a pain to try to use... I just stay with the new suff on the old phones... its quicker... anyway, the whole idea behind this thread was to see if the inside wiring was the same as the Line cords and to find out if the Bell system actually had a pair registration (standarization) back then... and how it was used.... knowing the first 10 colors of ther old code gives one the foundation of what used to be, if it was in actual use, or just whatever colors they had available to them when making cabling... we know that WRBYV are now the standard.... but how did Brown come into play as a main color? Interesting.... and then what was the real color format back in the day.... seeing old paperwork shows that they used to use bell wire for phone jacks, and black at that.... just like the old Tube and Knob wiring of the time....  how they ever kept the T & R correct is beyond me.... just like the T & K, how did you know which wire was what without a ground reference... oh well, so much for history!
John

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2021, 05:58:45 PM »
or just whatever colors they had available to them when making cabling... we know that WRBYV are now the standard.... but how did Brown come into play as a main color?
My understanding was they used the most colorfast colors available at the time. Fading was taken into account for selecting colors to use.
Brown has been a standard colorfast color for a long time in the telephone industry.
On old 25 pair cable they also had a 26th pair for a spare.
Jim
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2021, 11:26:17 PM »
yeah,m and thenn they updated the code.... oh well.... anyway, thanks everyone for chiming in! it has been very interesting hearing from all of you on this subject!
John

Offline 5415551212

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2021, 02:07:11 AM »
My understanding was they used the most colorfast colors available at the time. Fading was taken into account for selecting colors to use.
Brown has been a standard colorfast color for a long time in the telephone industry.
On old 25 pair cable they also had a 26th pair for a spare.
Jim
What are or were colorfast colors?

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2021, 10:33:13 PM »
I would think they were colors that wouldn't fade over time... on the old cloth covered line cords the colors faded with time and were impossible to see... so the sets would have to be upgraded... the old sets were sent back to WE for refurbishing and new cords were put in.... this mainly applies to the old 400 series sets... I've had to toss old cords because they were too faded and didn't tone out when tested.... broken conductors... I kind of with OPW could make cloth covered 25 pair cables... those would be neat to see on the old 400 series sets....
John

Offline 5415551212

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2021, 11:50:04 PM »
Ok so thought I'd post an update, our electrical contracting company has been working on a 7000 SQFT office building built in 1940 and since the electrical code requires abandoned cables to be removed, tons of old 25/50/75/100 pair had to be removed. Including some original 1940's phone cable.
Of course I threw a pile into my van for safe keeping..
This stuff with the brown outer jacket has solid colors no stripes.
It appears to be standard color code but no stripes.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Mounting Cord wire Color coding for older keysets
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2021, 01:03:07 PM »
yeah seeing that makes one wonder how the original techs were able to keep things straight. with the new color code, coming across the older wiring can really be a head scratcher. kind of like European wiring. Great Britain and other countries used to have a DC color code, RED/BLK. then they finally updated it to BLU/BWN... still throws me as here in the US we use white for a neutral and all other colors are considered hot... they even usle Slate as a traveler wire in a 3 way application, which they call a 2 way switch. crazy!
John