Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Talk => Find of the Month => Topic started by: AE_Collector on February 04, 2011, 09:11:43 PM

Title: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: AE_Collector on February 04, 2011, 09:11:43 PM
Please post your February 2011 "Finds of the Month" nominations here.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Jim Stettler on February 05, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
I nominate Kidphone's $89.00 (+s&h) 3/30 B1.

A beautiful phone Doug.

Here's the link to the discussion thread about Doug's latest find and there are lots more pictures there as well:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4281.msg55325#msg55325

Jim
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: AE_Collector on February 06, 2011, 10:58:42 PM
Here's February's next "Find of the Month" candidate!

Adam (AdamAnt316) snagged this AutoVON adjunct dial for a whopping $10 at a flea market ovver the weekend! Here's the scoop on it:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4290.new#new

Terry
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 18, 2011, 10:52:52 AM
I'd like to nominate myself for picking up this gorgeous beige 701B SOFT plastic Princess phone with "9-59" dates for just $24.50 plus $8.10 for s/h.  I haven't had the chance to clean it up yet, but it looks fantastic. 

I'm posting the auction pix so NO, that's not my hand, nor have I ever worn nail polish.  Hahaha. 

I have never seen such an early Princess phone--when in '59 were they actually released?  Inside dates are from 8-59 so I'm sure it has all the original parts (except the modular line cord--fortunately, the case wasn't made modular.)

Dan

Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 18, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
Dan, Is that color Light Beige?  There may be a color code inside on the back of the dial.  That is an early one.  According to Paul F's site the Princess was released in 1959 in five colors, Light Beige, Aqua Blue, Turquoise, Rose Pink and White.  

Paul's Site Info:  http://www.paul-f.com/wePrincess.html

I find it interesting that they made it in Turquoise in 1959 but the Model 500 release date for Turquoise was not until 1964, however there MAY be some dispute to that date.  (There may be some breaking news by another member in the coming days as to an earlier Turquoise 500).

Great phone and great find.  I also did not know they made the Princess with Tenite (soft plastic).  A 9-59 date in a model 500 would more than likely be ABS plastic, unless it was Black.  I'm sure others can enlighten us to that fact.

Nice Princess.  The condition is very nice.

~Dennis
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 18, 2011, 11:59:21 AM
Dan, Is that color Light Beige?  There may be a color code inside on the back of the dial.  That is an early one.  According to Paul F's site the Princess was released in 1959 in five colors, Light Beige, Aqua Blue, Turquoise, Rose Pink and White.  

Paul's Site Info:  http://www.paul-f.com/wePrincess.html

I find it interesting that they made it in Turquoise in 1959 but the Model 500 release date for Turquoise was not until 1964, however there MAY be some dispute to that date.  (There may be some breaking news by another member in the coming days as to an earlier Turquoise 500).

Great phone and great find.  I also did not know they made the Princess with Tenite (soft plastic).  A 9-59 date in a model 500 would more than likely be ABS plastic, unless it was Black.  I'm sure others can enlighten us to that fact.

Nice Princess.  The condition is very nice.

~Dennis
Hi Dennis,

It appears to be a beige set that has slightly darkened with age.  (I compared the outside color to the color underneath the receiver caps.)  Iíll check inside the case and see if thereís a color code under the dial; thatís a good point because with this being such an early Princess phone, it might have been stamped on it.  The dial has a little bit of staining (from the inside) so this will give me a good opportunity to check for a color code and see what the stain is from at the same time.

I love the early six-hole receiver cap.  Iím not certain itís a soft plastic set, but it APPEARS to be(or should I say feels like it is?).  I did the ďfingernail test,Ē but Iíll do another one while comparing it to a later model Princess phone.

Did WE use the same plastic for the early color 500 sets that it did for its color 300 series of phones?

Dan
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: jsowers on February 18, 2011, 01:23:40 PM
It looks like light beige to me, and if it's 9-59, it's hard (ABS) plastic. I don't think Princesses were ever made in soft (Tenite) plastic and they were likely the reason for the change to hard plastic when it happened, which is right before they started making the Princess. You do have a nice, early 701 Princess there.

I have an ivory Princess with a soft plastic handset from the mid 50s, but it's a refurb and the housing is hard plastic. Just because there are six holes in the earcap does not mean a phone is soft plastic. They went to seven holes about January, 1960 or so, six months into hard plastic.

Do you have a soft plastic phone with plastics dated before 6-59? If so, tap the handset with your (non-painted) fingernail and listen to the sound. Then tap the handset on this Princess and see what sound it makes. Soft plastic will tap with a dull sound and hard plastic will be a sharp sound. I saw your comment about tapping them, but wanted to elaborate so everyone knew what to expect.

You can also take some denatured alcohol to the inside and see if the plastic starts to dissolve. That's pretty drastic, so do at your own peril. Hard plastic shines up well with denatured alcohol, but soft plastic will come off on a paper towel and turn into a mess.

About the color code thing, Princess dials didn't have color codes on the dials. That was only on the 500 series phones.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 18, 2011, 01:57:25 PM
About the color code thing, Princess dials didn't have color codes on the dials. That was only on the 500 series phones.

I could have sworn I've seen some marked with a color code.  Maybe I'm thinking of the later #9 dials on the 500 sets.  Thanks for setting me straight on that.....now I'm going to have to open up all my Princess phones and check. :)
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Adam on February 18, 2011, 02:14:32 PM
About the color code thing, Princess dials didn't have color codes on the dials. That was only on the 500 series phones.

I could have sworn I've seen some marked with a color code.

But, respectfully, it does not make sense that Princess dials had color codes, because they didn't have colors!  :-)
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 18, 2011, 02:42:09 PM
Great point, Dave.  No colored dial plate, no color code.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 18, 2011, 05:13:06 PM
Do you have a soft plastic phone with plastics dated before 6-59? If so, tap the handset with your (non-painted) fingernail and listen to the sound. Then tap the handset on this Princess and see what sound it makes. Soft plastic will tap with a dull sound and hard plastic will be a sharp sound. I saw your comment about tapping them, but wanted to elaborate so everyone knew what to expect.
Oh!  Good point--I do, actually; it's a light beige 500 set with all dates, inside and out, from 1957, I believe.  I will have to do the comparison between the sets.

Also, out of curiosity, what month in 1959 did WE begin releasing the Princess phone after the initial trial runs in select locations?  Anyone have one earlier than 9-59?  I was pretty shocked when I saw the date. 

I guess it's often the case that the six-hole receivers caps are soft plastic, but by no means a rule--I think with the switch to PVC plastics around the same time, I just take it for granted sometimes that all the six-hole receiver caps are.

That's why I love this board--I really learn so much, and it also helps me recall info and facts that I used to remember.  Haha.  :)  Thank you. 
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: jsowers on February 18, 2011, 10:41:23 PM
Also, out of curiosity, what month in 1959 did WE begin releasing the Princess phone after the initial trial runs in select locations?  Anyone have one earlier than 9-59?  I was pretty shocked when I saw the date.  

I have a Princess keychain from an open house at the Shadeland Ave. plant in Indianapolis that says "September, 1959." That's where the Princess was made and likely that's the month and year the public first learned about it. I don't think they were advertised or installed until early 1960, and then in limited areas. But it could have been late 1959. Here is a link to a picture of that keychain, posted on the Forum last October.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3515.0;attach=18370 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3515.0;attach=18370)

Here's a post by JimH from October, 2009 of a Princess he found from 7-59.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1589.0 (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=1589.0)

It had a soft plastic handset. You can really tell the difference in the fading of the plastics. The lighter colors of soft plastic tended to turn lighter rather than darker when exposed to UV light.

So it looks like July, 1959 may be the starting point for manufacture of the Princess phone. I haven't seen anything earlier than that. June, 1959 was when hard plastic started to filter into all the 500 set parts. Parts like 500 dial faces and 500U mushrooms took about 6 months to exhaust (they were manufactured elsewhere). So there were many phones with combination plastics made in the latter half of 1959.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: cihensley@aol.com on February 19, 2011, 01:41:27 AM
But development started before 9-59. I have a pink set that was probably used in a field trial that has T&R elements dated 3-57. There is no date on the bottom. It has an engraved F(followed by some numbers) and 129 stamped in ink on the bottom. Also, the light switch is in the front versus the back on production models.

Chuck
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 19, 2011, 10:21:02 AM
Chuck, your phone sounds very interesting.  It would be nice to see a few photos some time if you can post some.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: cihensley@aol.com on February 19, 2011, 10:34:56 AM
Yes. I will toward the end of next week. I am receiving a new camera that I will use.

Chuck
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: paul-f on February 19, 2011, 06:25:34 PM
The Princess announcement date was in September, 1959 according to AT&T's "Events in Telecommunications History."

Production would have started several months earlier.

There are photos of the bedroom phone field trial set (1957) here:
  http://www.paul-f.com/webr.html
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: jsowers on February 22, 2011, 11:36:28 AM
Here is what I consider my find of the month, an NOS ivory soft plastic 554 from 3-59. It came complete with the original box and backboard wrapped in the original packing material. The auction ended at $20.50 and the shipping was $15.95. With what NOS phones with the box have been bringing lately, it was a total surprise to me. Here is the auction link, if you're interested...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270701507855  Dead link 2/9/14

It only lacked the coil cord, and I had one to complete it. It does have outgassing from the rubber ringer mounts on both sides that have come through to the outside, but otherwise it looks and feels as new as the day it left the plant. The plastics sort of "squeak" when I handle them and the inside is dust-free. Here are some pictures of it...
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dan on February 22, 2011, 08:54:00 PM
Gorgeous!! You are one lucky man!
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 23, 2011, 12:46:12 AM
Wow!  I saw that 554 phone, but just assumed the box came with it... didn't think the phone was NOS!  Nice find. 

I have another possible contender for the month of February.  I recently acquired a WE 510 with what appears to have all original, 1955 parts!  It even has the original G1 handset-- best of all?  I got it for just $35 which includes shipping!

Here's a pic...

Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: DavePEI on February 23, 2011, 08:01:25 AM

I have another possible contender for the month of February.  I recently acquired a WE 510 with what appears to have all original, 1955 parts!  It even has the original G1 handset-- best of all?  I got it for just $35 which includes shipping!



Thought you might get a kick out of this thread....

510's in triplicate"

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4397.0
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 23, 2011, 11:14:27 AM
Jonathan, I think that was an awesome find.  Since I enjoy collecting the soft plastic 500's and 554's that would be one I would be proud to have in my collection.  I think that "flew below the radar" with similar collectors.  I know I missed it.  Congratulations on your find!
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 23, 2011, 01:07:20 PM


Thought you might get a kick out of this thread....

510's in triplicate"

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4397.0

Wow!  That is awesome!  I noticed from Paul's site that these two-line phones worked with a 4-condutor mounting cord -- how are they hooked to the line to work as a two-line phone then?  I guess I'm just a bit confused.  Right now, there's a four-prong plug on it.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: AE_Collector on February 23, 2011, 01:21:31 PM
Wow!  That is awesome!  I noticed from Paul's site that these two-line phones worked with a 4-condutor mounting cord -- how are they hooked to the line to work as a two-line phone then?  I guess I'm just a bit confused.  Right now, there's a four-prong plug on it.

I don't know the phone at all but would guess that the set cord green/red = Line 1 and Black/Yellow = Line 2.

Terry
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 23, 2011, 01:25:06 PM
Terry,

I was thinking the same thing. 

He said that the phone does not contain a bell (not sure if that was the usual or not), but I'll have to "pop the hood" later and see what's inside.

Dan
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: DavePEI on February 23, 2011, 02:03:23 PM

Wow!  That is awesome!  I noticed from Paul's site that these two-line phones worked with a 4-condutor mounting cord -- how are they hooked to the line to work as a two-line phone then?  I guess I'm just a bit confused.  Right now, there's a four-prong plug on it.

Exactly as Terry said above....
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dan on February 23, 2011, 05:13:35 PM
Agree with the wiring, I have a 410 WE at work and the girls hate it, line two rings and the dead awaken!
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 23, 2011, 05:25:12 PM
Haha.  That explains how it works then.

I noticed something when I popped the hood of the phone--it DOES have a bell in it (even though the seller said it didn't--actually, I looked at the bottom "vents" and it was obvious there were two bells in it).  Maybe he tried tried it out, and it didn't ring because it has a party-line or frequency ringer?  It doesn't look like any wires were unhooked though.  No idea.

It's a great phone though with all dates of the phone from 1955--inside and out.  Even the handset caps and transmitter/receiver elements hadn't been replaced over the years with the PVC plastic caps or newer parts. 

Interestly enough, my SC 510 phone from 1983 (funny to think the same model phones were made 28 years apart from each other) is, of course, marked 510, but it also has the white exclusion/hold-key switch hook.  Although they share the same numberical code, could it have to do with a letter difference in the coding?  (I'll have to check them again to see if there is a difference.)

Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: paul-f on February 23, 2011, 05:48:02 PM
Nice find.

I can never remember all the variations, so look them up in the chart here:
  http://www.paul-f.com/we500typ.htm#Variations

Scroll down to the 510s.  Notice there are several variations.  The BSPs show the wiring details. 

Note that two extra wires are needed in the mounting cord if you want to use the pushbutton function on the line key.

If your SC set has an exclusion or hold plunger, it should be marked 511 or 515.  (See the chart for a quick reference.)
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: JimH on February 24, 2011, 10:17:02 AM
I have a "Princess" phone from July, 1959 that has a soft-plastic handset, but an ABS base shell.  I have "Princess" in quotes because it does not have the name marked on the bottom.  I was told this was before Bell had the name trademarked, and they did not mark the phones "Princess" yet.  The handset had faded to a whitish pink, just like many pink 500s did.  I've since restored the set and the pinks match, but here's photos from the ebay ad.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dan on February 25, 2011, 12:00:07 AM
That's as early a princess as I have ever seen!
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: cihensley@aol.com on February 25, 2011, 04:17:47 PM
As suggested by Dennis, here are some pictures of the my 1957 pink princess trial phone. The trial phone is well described in Paul F's Web site, at the URL he posted above. I learned features I was not aware of.

Chuck
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Doug Rose on February 25, 2011, 04:40:01 PM
Chuck...that is amazing. What is your history with the phone....Doug
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Dennis Markham on February 25, 2011, 04:55:25 PM
Wow Chuck, that is one beautiful phone.  It looks pristine as they say.  It appears that it has been well cared for all these years.
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: cihensley@aol.com on February 25, 2011, 06:13:06 PM
Doug - I purchased the phone about 15+ years go from Larry Wolff. I didn't ask where he had obtained it.

Chuck
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 25, 2011, 06:51:11 PM
It's funny that the Pink Princess phone is currently the talk on this message board because, just today, I got a 701B Pink Princess phone in the mail that I'd recently purchased on eBay for $34.99 with s/h of $9.65: http://tinyurl.com/63ko8dq

It has the same oddly vague markings as Jim's phone phone from 7/59 (notice that "Princess" isn't engraved on mine but STAMPED on the phone as almost an afterthough)--it was refurbed "12-61," but when the refurb date was added, "Bell System The Princess Phone" was stamped on.  I have a feeling that the only "refurb" this phone had was the lead weight added in the base because that's the only without dates from "8-59"--in fact, either the receiver or transmitter element is dated from '58.  I'll have to check if the handset is pink plastic or not, but I was pleasantly surprised when I saw all the "7-59" parts in the phone.  Even the color is nice, overall...with the exception of the handset cord. 

Another odd thing--check out all the leads in the phone; I even see a purple one!  Even the guts look different (to me) than the average Princess, even different than the average 701B model, from what I remember.  I'll post pix soon of the insides.

Dan
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Doug Rose on February 25, 2011, 07:07:48 PM
Doug - I purchased the phone about 15+ years go from Larry Wolff. I didn't ask where he had obtained it.

Chuck
Its a beauty, sure is different...Doug
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on February 25, 2011, 07:12:34 PM
It would help if I added pix for the board!  Haha. 
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Jim Stettler on February 26, 2011, 08:20:45 PM
I have a pink  w/ R1061 stamped the same way.
My white 6/60 hase the engraving, the base "footpad" is different tho. The footpad is the same style as the 1959.
Jim
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Jim Stettler on February 27, 2011, 10:10:42 PM
Are their any more nominations for FEbruary. Only 1 day left to add your nomination.

Jim
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: GG on February 28, 2011, 08:01:43 AM


Chuck, I don't see a varistor across the terminals on your receiver.  First time I've ever seen a U1 element w/o a varistor, on a phone as-issued.  Normally the U1 has a "tin can" varistor, and the later U3 has a "green blob" varistor.    I'm wondering if it's possible that WE put the varistor inside the set, but that would be a complete change from normal.  Or it's possible that a receiver element made it through manufacturing minus the varistor, as a manufacturing error. 

In any case, if you want to use that phone and it hasn't got one, you should add one yourself by connecting two ordinary 1-N-914 diodes, back to back in parallel, across the receiver terminals.  Better safe than sorry, since acoustic transients could damage the receiver otherwise. 
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: stopthemachine on March 04, 2011, 02:06:32 AM
Has the voting begun yet for February?
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: Adam on March 04, 2011, 03:31:49 AM
I don't see a varistor across the terminals on your receiver.  First time I've ever seen a U1 element w/o a varistor, on a phone as-issued.  Normally the U1 has a "tin can" varistor, and the later U3 has a "green blob" varistor.    I'm wondering if it's possible that WE put the varistor inside the set, but that would be a complete change from normal.

The whole phone is a complete change from normal!  Check out the phone's guts, there's nothing standard inside at all!

That was a good catch, tho, GG.  Perhaps the varistor IS inside the phone instead of the handset.  There's something in the phone guts that looks like it could be one.  Do you think this is it?
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: AE_Collector on March 05, 2011, 12:48:00 AM
Okay, that's it for contestants for the February 2011 "Find of the Month". The Poll is now open.

I haven't included any of the early Princess Phones posted here other than stopthemachine's as they weren't recent finds and didn't include prices. They were posted here to add to the discussion around stopthemachine's 9-1959 701B Pink Princess.

Terry
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: GG on March 07, 2011, 03:57:14 AM


Masstel, if there are any candidates for varistors in that set, I'd say the two dark grayish-greenish flat discs seen above the network board, just beyond the hookswitch. 

However, to be safe, add the dual diode assembly at the back of that earpiece.  A U1 or U3 receiver element without protection can get damaged easily, so better safe than sorry.

And yeah that does look like a field trial set or something other than a standard production run, because there's so much "stuff" inside that isn't protected and looks pretty random. 
Title: Re: Find of the Month - February 2011
Post by: AE_Collector on March 21, 2011, 11:18:52 PM
Please post your February 2011 "Finds of the Month" nominations here.  Thank you!


Okay that 's it for February 2011's "Find of the Month". Thanks for all the nominations.

Looks like Jonathan cleans up this month with his New In the Box 3-59 Soft Plastic WECO 554. Nice find Jonathan! And nice find to all the other contestants this month too. Don't ever quit looking (unless of course you are out of room like most of us here on the Classic Rotary Phones forum).

Voting Results: # of Votes & (Percentage of total vote)
Kidphone's 3/30 B1 for $89 - ebaY   3 (16.7%)
AdamAnt316's AutoVON adjunct - $10 at a flea market    4 (22.2%)
stopthemachine's 701B SOFT Plastic Princess "9-59" for $24.50   5 (27.8%)  
jsowers NOS ivory soft plastic 554 3-59 still in the box $20.50   6 (33.3%)
stopthemachine's Black WE 1955 510 $35 Incl. Shipping   0 (0%)  
Total Voters: 18