Author Topic: Stromberg Carlson 1243 Help - Have Dial tone now but get "number not in service"  (Read 677 times)

Offline poplar1

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This old but very good topic shows how a phone with a 3 wire line cord may have the yellow wire connected to G and the ringer Black Wire connected to G.

Simply move the black ringer wire from the G terminal to L1 to put the ringer into a 2 wire line cord set up.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15870.0

L2 has the red line cord wire which connects to the red ringer wire.

L1 has the green line cord wire which connects to the black ringer wire.



This is for a WE 500 circuit so you will have to translate the idea to your SC network but the basic conversion is simple, put the ringer back into the red/green line cord connections by having one ringer wire attached to the red line cord network terminal and the other ringer wire attached to the green line cord network terminal.


This is the second time in one week (other time was for 2554s) that it has been suggested that the ringer be connected across L1 and L2 without a capacitor. This is not correct for any common battery phone, whether dial or manual..
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline TelePlay

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i would reroute the dial wires so that they point above the dial instead of across the dial. when the cover is screwed down,the wires are not as likely to interfere with  the dial contacts

Good point. The red wire is over the mute leaves, the red and brown over the governor worm drive and the white over the pulse leaves. That’s the first dial I can remember seeing wired like that. Lugs are placed on terminals to keep the wires away from those moving parts.

And by the way, that is a common Automatic Electric dial, not an SC dial. AE dials are dependable and easy to service.

Offline TelePlay

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This is the second time in one week (other time was for 2554s) that it has been suggested that the ringer be connected across L1 and L2 without a capacitor. This is not correct for any common battery phone, whether dial or manual..

The diagram is for a 4 wire WE C4A which has 4 wires with slate and red slate attached to A and K putting the ring capacitor inside the network in the ring circuit, right? Shorting slate and slate/red together would be required to take the A/K capacitor out of the 500 ring circuit, right? The diagram provided by unbeldi shows the slate and slate/red ringer wires on A and K.

There is also a capacitor in the SC network doing the same thing.

A WE 2 wire ringer is wired differently to include the A/K capacitor, right?

Or am I wrong, missing something, and misleading this new member?

Offline poplar1

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The diagram is for a 4 wire WE C4A which has 4 wires with slate and red slate attached to A and K putting the ring capacitor inside the network in the ring circuit, right? Shorting slate and slate/red together would be required to take the A/K capacitor out of the 500 ring circuit, right? The diagram provided by unbeldi shows the slate and slate/red ringer wires on A and K.

There is also a capacitor in the SC network doing the same thing.

A WE 2 wire ringer is wired differently to include the A/K capacitor, right?

Or am I wrong, missing something, and misleading this new member?


Your reply #11 with the SC 1243 diagram,  and Robby's reply #6 are correct. There has to be a strap from L2 to G. The black ringer wire connects to C2 (with another strap from C1 to C2) in order to add the two capacitors in series with the ringer. The ringer does not connect to L2!

The other ringer wire (red) connects to 3. The normally closed dial pulsing contacts complete the ringer circuit to 1, and 1 is connected through the network to L1.

Yes, the C4A has 4 wires, so that the capacitor can be connected between the 2 windings rather than connecting one side of a WE C2-type (or other 2-wire) ringer to L1, and the other side of the ringer to a capacitor, with the other side of the capacitor connected to L2.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 11:32:24 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline BackInTimemachines

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i would reroute the dial wires so that they point above the dial instead of across the dial. when the cover is screwed down,the wires are not as likely to interfere with  the dial contacts

Oh wow - yup - excellent point.  I noticed it is missing the bracket that keep the wiring clamped to the side so mispositioned wires could definitely be a problem.  I see Teleplay's comment as well so I will move those wires and lugs to fasten from the top and try to tie the loose wires up as well.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:07:57 AM by BackInTimemachines »

Offline BackInTimemachines

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This is the second time in one week (other time was for 2554s) that it has been suggested that the ringer be connected across L1 and L2 without a capacitor. This is not correct for any common battery phone, whether dial or manual..
Looks like the WE is wired with a capacitor in the circuit for a two wire so it works.
I have now wired the SC using a strap from G to L2 so the capacitor stays in. I think that should work. Without the strap it is essentially turned off going to a phantom "ground".

Offline BackInTimemachines

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So - rewired the ringer and moved the dial wires away from the mechanism.

Went over to my buddy's house to test it out - phone would received calls and could talk to each other on his phone to the Stromberg. But, the phone still would not not ring or dial out - only could dial four numbers before "call cannot be completed" message comes on.  Then he says, "I wonder if this works on a digital network?" And a light goes off.

I know these phones can work on POTS twisted pair and perhaps FIOS but if he has VIOP or some other protocol, I'm betting there is some sort of converter or dial recalibration needed. And, for sure I'll bet the power and frequency to ring the bell won't work.

My best guess is it is working now if I could find a POTS line which is getting harder and harder to do every day!
 :-\

Offline dsk

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The "digital lines" are generated by equipment of many standards, most of them would power a ringer like the original SL ringer in a SC 1243 phone, usually with only one of the 2 0.5 uF capacitors. (try without the strap C1-C2, but keep the S2-C strap)
The rotary dial may not be accepted on your line, you could add a dialgizmo or other pulse to tone device. 

Are your line coming from an adapter in your home? In that case what kind of adapter? 

dsk

Offline TelePlay

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Do you have any other rotary dial phones and if so, have you been able to dial out using them on your current digital phone line?

Offline MMikeJBenN27

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I am not a digital expert, but I have heard that if your digital service includes the Internet, a dial phone will be an answer-only phone.  If it is just a phone line, it might work properly with a dial phone.  The one I had on some property I sold last year worked, and it did not include the Internet.  It was telephone only.

Mike

Offline TelePlay

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This is background information related to the dial harness in the red SC 1243W and the network straps.

This red SC 1243 originally had a SC dial which was replaced with the AE dial which is shown in this image from above (and I don't think that Philips/slotted screw holding the dial in place on the right was original either).



Looking at the wires in the image, it shows them bundled together (wrapped) with short leads between the wrapping and the spade lugs. When this harness was attached to the AE dial, as shown, the leads were too short to attach them "away" from the AE moving parts and the cause for concern about the wires over the leaf switches and the governor.

This is what an SC newer style dial looks like when in place. Note the same wire harness, bundled with 4 short lugged connection wires.



The wires coming up through the grommet on the left are soldered to the leaf terminals. These wires are attached to the terminals on the outside of the plastic cover and the short leads from the bundled harness attached to the same appropriate terminals. The plastic cover protects the dial parts and the wires do not get in the way of moving parts.

This is how the wires inside the cover are soldered to the leaf terminals.



Now, SC made what I call an "older" and a "newer" style dial and the difference is in the plastic cover. The "newer" style dial plastic cover was held in place by 2 screws at the top and bottom of the case as shown. The dial was held into the housing by two screws on the left and right of the case as shown. The "older" style dial plastic cover was held in place by the 5 terminal screws themselves.



In the above, you will note the older style dial on the left has solid posts at the top and bottom to center the plastic cover but they are not drilled out and threaded. The two posts at the right and left sides are drilled and threaded and these are used to hold the older style dial to the housing. The 5 terminal of the older style case screw directly into the leaf terminals providing a connection from the leaf switches to the harness attached to the outside of the case and when tightened down, the terminal screws also hold the plastic cover in place.

In the newer style, the soldered wires are routed up through the grommet in the plastic cover and the lugs attached to the 4 terminals (one strapped to the 5th). In the above image, you will note that the top and bottom posts are drilled out and threaded and these are used to hold the plastic cover in place. The left and right posts are drilled and threaded and used to attach the dial to the housing.

In both the older and newer style dial, the bundled harness is the same and attaches 4 lugged wires to the 4 terminals on the outside of the plastic cover. The bundled harness was not made for use with an AE dial.

This image shows the older style dial with the plastic cover on and off showing the 5 terminals are how the cover is held in place. When working on these, the plastic cover is placed on the dial case and the 5 screw terminal inserted and slightly tightened. Once the dial is mounted back into the housing, the bundled harness 4 lugged wires are attached to the 4 of the terminals and then they are tightened down.



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This black SC 1243W has a straight line ringer



and in this image you can see (yellow arrows) that it is set up for bridged ringing (top arrow with a strap from L1 to G) and the bottom arrow shows a strap across the capacitor terminals C1 and C2 incorporating both internal capacitors.



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(images below will expand when clicked on)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 11:20:55 PM by TelePlay »