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Statuary Bronze 302???

Started by Doug Rose, May 15, 2014, 05:56:53 PM

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Doug Rose

OH MY!!
Kidphone

Doug Rose

I get up every morning at 5AM to go to work in Boston. today my day off....I'm up at 4AM. I couldn't get this out of my head. I head dreams and nightmares about it. I didn't dare soak it as I didn't want the paint lifting, so I used a damp cloth to get off the sh*t and then very lightly using brasso over small areas. Some areas I needed a q-tip in brasso to rub a little harder.

I surprised myself!!  Pictures do not do this justice. You would swear this is green thermopastic holding it. Minor chipping on the back (thank you) of the brown bakelit handset. I asked the seller to wrap the handset separate in bubble, he agreed, but it came sitting right in the crade with no bubble. If you look at the original pics, there was some paint loss, so its hard to tell if there was any other damage.

Considering the abuse, this came out way above expectations.

A few mic pics as well.....OH MY!!!!....Doug
Kidphone

Gilas

Ok so I'm jealous lol.  Beautiful phone and surely one that I hope to add someday to help my color collection of 302's.  Congrats on the find Doug looks amazing!!!

unbeldi

#18
It should be easy to tell whether it's plastic or not. Alone by the weight. The inside of the housing looks like it is black plastic. Only plastic sets have the brass inserts for the mounting screws. The housing also shows the typical warping of plastic sets. The inside finish looks just black and there are stampings for mounting code and date, the latter looks like 1947 from here.  WeCo didn't make colored plastic housings after the war until the last month or so of 1948, which was announce in BLR in January 1949.
So, if the finish was indeed Statuary Bronze then this was probably not a factory product, but a custom paint job in a refurbishing center that didn't have any metal housings left.
What is the date on the dial?
What is the material of the handset? It looks like it's brown Bakelite, based on the paint chipping in the cradle rest area. Is there a date on the handset too?

poplar1

The housing is thermoplastic, right? If so, isn't it unusual that they chose a plastic housing, rather than metal, to be painted, especially for a "metallic" finish?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

RotarDad

Nice phone, Doug!  I didn't know this finish even existed...your careful clean up really paid off.   Is this a keeper for you?  I know you've mentioned that a phone must be pretty special to clear a spot in your phone room at this point...
Paul

Doug Rose

Thanks guys, it is a keeper. The shell is indeed thermoplastic. This is the best paint job I have ever seen on a phone. A two color blend and none of it moves with cleaning with brasso. Anytime I use brasso, I get a little color of the paint. Brown bakelite handset, 5J dial, clear plungers....my vote is a WE job all the way. This is already sitting on a shelf. It is marked -7 on the bottom, Statuary Bronze in the WE color chart. This is the real deal, in my humble opinion

I was very fortunate to find this and have it clean up so well. I hoped it would clean up the way it did, but dealing with paint is much harder than bakelite...Doug
Kidphone

BDM

--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

Dennis Markham

That's the first word that comes to my mind too....Wow!  Beautiful phone, Doug.  Congratulations!

unbeldi

Well, without prejudice, I don't think a new -7 finish ever looked anything close to this.
There isn't a single definition actually what Statuary Brown actually looks like, it could be a good range of colors, but I am sure WE had a single definition. Looking at the WE color charts and their color transitions in the 50s, I would speculate that -54 was created to replace its tone.

  -4 => -50 (ivory)
  -5 => -52 (gray)
  -7 => -54 (brown)
-16 => -55 (rose)
-18 => -57 (blue)
-19 => -51 (green)
-20 => -53 (red)

Some of these transitions are very close in color, especially the green tones and the blue as well.  Red is only close in bright light. Ivory became noticeably more saturated. Don't know how dark -5 was.

So I would look toward Mahogany Brown for a first match, and the original "dirty" finish probably comes the truth a lot closer only in a shiny version.

Apart from the obvious home-brewed colored 302s on eBay and elsewhere, speaking only of Bell System produced sets, there always seems something "wrong" with the color sets that appear to have been made in the years after the war until 1948 or so. Either the plungers are the wrong kind, the dial is a 5H rather than a 5J, or as in this case the metal housing has been replaced with a black plastic housing. I haven't observed a "proper" sample, and we know why: WeCo factories didn't make them until 1949. They made parts, such as 5J dials during those years, and metal housings until 1946 acc. to observations, but no colored phones.  Yet, it appears the operating companies tried to fulfill special customer orders, so they created sets in ways feasible with the parts they had. The phones seem to have been those stamped on the bottom, in this case 304C-7, because they didn't have original factory boxes for them.  Another recent example on eBay was the 302C-51, and I have seen at least one 302C-53, IIRC.  Regular factory production sets didn't seem to ever have a marking in the bottom.

Agree or disagree?

Doug Rose

Hey Karl...All I know is the brown on this phone wiped off with a wet cloth. I thought there would be brown in this phone as well when I purchased it. The name Statuary Bronze never made sense to me when I saw pictures in The Doonor books of it, color was not bronze. That being said, this paint stood up to a rigorous cleaning with Brasso and truly shines. I cannot capture in the pictures, how this really looks. The green looks like it is green thermoplastic and the black blends in well. None of the green or black moved when I was cleaning.

As you noted earlier "I doubt there is much that can be done to reverse the process on a phone." I guess I have to disagree with that statement. I am positively thrilled with its outcome, even though I did expect something different. With the 5J, brown bakelite handset and clear plungers this is consistant with WE 302 color sets of the 50's as well is their painted sets.

The brown on the set fooled me in the pictures, but it just wiped off so I have to conclude it was the sh*t that was all over this phone. There were spots of sticky sh*t that I didn't think were coming off after along time at it. The pictures show it was a mess. I took a huge gamble on this considering the down side, that  I could part it out and not get all my money back. The upside is this is a phone I don't think too many collectors have seen. I like the upside!

What truly bothers me about this phone is the wonderful condition underneath the layers of dirt. No chips in the cradle, only a few small marks on the front right where the side meets the front. Handset looks like it chipped from being transported all these years with it in the cradle. Painted handsets are the first to go on the handle and with caps. NO bad areas. Dial is pristine as well, finger wheel is perfect and they are not an easy find for a replacement like the #6 fingerwheels.

Just my humble opinions. Without prejudice, I do respect your thoughts on this. We might never know the true answer. I can tell you this, its not going anywhere. This is right up there with my blood red 302, maybe even jumped ahead......Doug

Kidphone

tallguy58

At the end of the day who cares whether it's "authentic" or not.

Doug likes the phone and feels that the money was well spent.  It fills a hole in his collection.

I thing the "cammo" paint job looks fab.  If someone else did it, they did a great job.

Obviously a good conversation piece...look at how much we've talked about it.

Cheers........Bill

AE40FAN

I love the color!!!  Is it possible this may have been a factory special request?   The paint job looks amazing.  Also, the fact the handset is brown bakelite leads me to believe this is an original factory paint job.   Good thing paint loss only shows on back of the phone.  Keeper for sure.

BDM

Tallguy many may very well care. We are after all collectors and if something shown or said can be confirmed, all the better. Unbeldi asked a legitimate question in a respectful manner, Doug gave a respectful answer. I have no opinion myself because simply, I know nothing about them. Now in this respect I agree, nice find Doug. I also like that color and no matter what, it is one hell of an interesting find to say the least!
--Brian--

St Clair Shores, MI

JohnInWI

#29
Doug, that is truly an amazing transformation!  Great find, and great job of careful cleaning!